Julio is doing some testing of his 8mm Prairie Hawk.

As we discussed, I found that I had 90 of the single tail slugs from the #120 mold. I cleaned them, sized them, and decided to color them too ... just to spice up your range trip .... hahah. They turned out good.

Hope they produce some good targets for you!

Enjoy ...

Gary

Lady at the Post Office said it should be there Monday. Also ... I used the correct address this time! ;?)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2011 07:14PM by barnespneumatic.

Hi Gary,

Went to the range today and tested the #117 single and twin tail slugs with good results. I will post some pictures later. Thanks again for sending me those 8mm slugs.

Julio

Hi Guys,

Today I went to the range to shoot some 8mm slugs that Gary sent me to test and report the results. Happens, that during the early testing phase of this rifle, Gary made different molds trying different things, always in the look for the perfect slug. Searching within the Airgun Rendezvous page I found some real good targets shot with some of these early slugs and I wanted to try some. You know how it is and Gary found some of these early 8mm slugs and send them to me for testing.

It was a beautiful morning here in Puerto Rico; the temperature was close to 85 degrees and almost no wind blowing. Certainly those are perfect conditions for shooting and testing new slugs.


To my surprise the CF tank only had 3,500 psi (where’s my shoebox?). I only had a small window of opportunity because these heavy slugs are supposed to be shot on the higher power setting and at a higher than 3,500 psi.

These four (10) shots groups were shot at 50 yards using the #117 mold single and twin tail slugs. The rifle was connected directly to the CF tank. I first shot 10 single tails, then 10 twin tails, then 10 single tails and finally 10 twin tails.






After 40 shots the CF tank still had 3,200 psi left, but it was too low for shooting these slugs at this power setting. Sadly for me, I had to pack and return home. A question came to me… (Where my ShoeBox is?)


For perspective I placed a quarter beside this group to show you how close they are. In my opinion the mold #117 it’s a winner.


I still have some other slugs that need to be tested. Once I try them, I will keep you posted on the results.

So far so good, hope that you enjoy.

Julio



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2011 08:46PM by Julio.

Hello Julio,

Very nice! Thank you for posting the results.

It definitely likes the #117 Twin tail slugs. Your second and fourth groups were Twin Tails. The last one is covering about 1/4 of the area of the 2nd group. (About half the height, and about half the width = 1/4 the area). You must discover the reason for this. It would be difficult to think that the difference between 3,400 psi and 3,300 psi made that difference in accuracy. Could be technique. Getting more comfortable at the bench. That's what I find.

I'm pleased with what you have done here. Every slug will not go thru the same hole. We are just not machines. Then, as well, the slugs were not perfect in every way. In fact, these slugs were "as cast" to my memory. That would give you the max. size. That seems to have helped you. Very good.

Many Thanks. Sounds like a fine day!

Gary

Twin Tail fo sho!

Nice group.

Lon

Looking good Julio. Good shootin.

And by the way, i just checked my sales slip on my SHOEBOX and its got your info on it...lol. Sorry man, you will just have to wait till mine is ready and hopefully they will send it to you. Just joking....you should enjoy your first fill with your shoebox. From 3300 psi it should take your shoebox a few hours to fill your tank back to 4500 psi.

And ohhh yeah, make sure you read the instruction manual bro before you start. Its only a couple pages long but has some good tips on things to watch out for when you use your shoebox for the first time. Things like how the shoebox has a switch that automatically turns the shoebox off when the pressure get to a certain level. You need to read up on that one.

We're also checking out a factor with his gun. The buttstock is removable on the gun. Packs it up better. But, that means you reinstall it each time. Julio has had a gun broken in shipment. He hasn't wanted to crank down the tightener too hard on this one. We've talked. He can tighten it more so it's not walking on him, or in a different position each time he installs it. Of course, if the case is long enough (which it might not be), then you can leave it in place.

Brings up a subject that comes up often. Cheek pieces on rifles. That's a can of worms. Now, without assigning value to shooters ... there are two types. One can pick up any rifle ever made, from a matchlock to a Phaser rifle ... and shoulder it, aim, and fire. The second type will first express doubt that the gun will fit them, before they ever pick it up. Then, they will go thru a sort of "settling in" exercise ... much like a dog making it's bed, or a woman choosing her wedding dress. This will be accompanied by lots of glances at me (while I'm standing by, arms folded, having asked them if they'd like to "take a shot"). As time goes by, quite a few comments will pass. "Sure is heavy", "Pull is long for me", "Can't get my head under the scope", "Cheek's too high for my facial bones", and dozens of variations on these themes. In conclusion ... some folks are more "atuned" to cheek pcs., than others. This is not to include Julio ... he just drew the short straw of talking to me about cheek pcs., and thus came into peril while I addressed a subject which came to mind. There's always the risk of that ...

Well, personally, I more or less ignore the cheek pc. I center my eye to the scope. One theory feels that it's the responsibility of the cheek pc. to do that for you. No matter how you'd try to extract your head from the rifle, the cheek pc. would firmly lock you into alignment with the scope, until it was darned good an well ready to release you ... I go in more for the "Personal Responsibility" method. Using what remains of my neck muscles, I line up my eye to the scope, and shoot. But hey ... that's just me ... what do I know ...

OK ... I've done enough damage here. Back to the shop ....

Gary

So ... nobody on cheek pcs.??? What .... are you ..... CHICKEN .... .... hhaha.

Man .... all that good stuff ... not one chuckle or comment. What a bust. I'm gonna go over to the stamp collecting forum. Those guys really mix it up ....

Well,

When the Master has spoken and he's covered most of the bases. Doesn't leave much for us chickens to peck at. I always just like the look of more wood. it would give you more area to carve on. Dory

Well, I'll have to remember to let out some stuff.

Hey - I did leave some stuff out. You guys aren't trying.

See; unless I'd make every stock adjust to rotate and elevate; then there's no way the cheek could fit the infinite variables. Those would include not only the build and facial structure of each shooter, but; the eye relief of various scopes (which puts your head in a different place) ... or the height of the scope rings, which alters your face contact.

There's a couple more. It's been lovely talking to myself ... I've learned alot! hahaah

Gary

Hi Gary,

Just to be sure: On which group of shooters am I?

Could a shooter be in one group and change to the other group?

Or, could a shooter be partialy in both groups?


Julio

Hello Julio,

YOU, my friend, are in the best group. Why can't everybody be like you, Julio?



Can people be from both groups? Yes, I think so. For instance; the "modifiers" are frequently in both groups. They can be just fine .... when they are by themselves, at the range, using their own equipment (which they modified with wood putty, styrofoam, and a roll of duck tape). And then when I am there .... they "might" develop an irresistible urge to explain; in great detail, what I may wish to modify .... in order to make my own work more suitable. hahahah. Just an observation I've noted a time or six hundred, in the last 40 years. hahahah.

They probably just fear that I may run out of things to do.

Gary

Gary:

I typically fall into group one as long as I can shoulder the piece.

I can see those trying to compete seriuosly against other elite shooters wanting every advantage though. For them, the stock would have to be fully adjustable for lop and cheek height so it can be adjusted day by day. I think even they would have to wing it for any other factor...except weights?

Obviously we are not talking about me here. LOL.

Karl

So if I just want modify my stock so the scope doesn't hit me. Do I just cut a tennis ball in half and cut it till it conforms to the stock and then duck tape it on. Dory

Dory,

If such a modifications would make you happy, then I'll bet it would work just fine.

A stock modification isn't going to keep the scope from hitting you. That's a factor of scope eye relief. When the eye centers the scope, you have a thin uniform ring around the outside edge. If that appears the same each time, then you are the same distance from the scope each time. If you have a habit of crawling up inside the scope, then becoming more aware of the sight picture would probably help your shooting.

Perhaps what's missing to the thread, is the 10X factor regarding cost structure. If my stock is going to be responsible for matching any possible combination of: Objective bell diameter, scope eye relief, scope mounting height, length or lack of a shooter's neck, placement of shooter's cheekbones, glasses or contacts, and a few other variables .... then just put your checkbook on the desk there, and let me get you another glass of champagne. We'll need to fly you in for at least two fittings, prior to applying the stock oils.

Otherwise; I shoot amazingly accurate targets, before I ship each rifle. So; they ain't bad.



Gary

Yeah, I do creep in a little. from time to time. Every once in awhile I get to close. I got bushy eyebrows. So that's my early warning system. Switching from contacts to glasses doesn't help. When I get a scope I always make sure it has a lot of relief.

I found that how relaxed I am has a part to.

Would I have to have four sittings since I shoot with contacts and glasses. Would that be with 2 stocks depending on what I'm wearing that day. Or one of those adjustable ones with 2 settings.

I've got a checkbook, I'm ready for a road trip. It's been raining 4 days. The Ohio River might set a 2nd or 3rd highest.record in a couple of days. Dory

Oh NO!!! Not a road trip! hahaha. No - you don't need a bunch of stocks. Actually, I suspect if you scope yourself a few more times ... you will learn where the scope is.

Someone must have posted that I'm looking for things to do. ;?)

I just got my buttstock chewed by some guy that's written me over the last few weeks, couple of times. Started out wanting to talk about air shotguns. I sent him some links, gave him some e-mail thoughts. Next - I get mail with a phone number - wanting me to call him to talk about air shotguns. Yeah.

Well, I didn't get back in time ... so here comes one with phone number again .... wants me to call him and discuss air shoitguns ... because "so and so wants HIM to build an air shotgun for them". Well ... now THAT's an opportunity if I ever had one. I wrote back that I was crazy busy ... and had a bunch of people who would want my hide if I was taking time to teach airgun building, over the phone, so other people could fill their orders.

Today, I get this really crappy responce. Telling me that "HE didn't need me to teach him how to build airguns. He thought I'd like the chance to talk airguns. And ended with a slur about "oh great one". What a complete jerk. Oh, no ... I mean "ME". Gosh ... this fellow offers me the chance to use up my time, to personally call him, so he can ferret out whatever he wants to know so he can fill HIS order .... and ... I'm so stupid that I don't just JUMP for the chance! Man ... WHAT was I thinking ....

Gary

Gary:

You see Gary, there you lost your chance to ask someone to build an air shotgun for you.

I guess so Julio,

It's a crazy world. All the people who seek you out ... just so they can tell you off when you don't give them what they demand. This was like one of those nut jobs who beat up their girlfriend, because she doesn't love them enough.

Which reminds me of the funny Tee shirt slogan ... "The beatings will continue, until morale improves!" ... hahah.



GAry

"the beatings will continue until morale improves"... I've got an embroidered hat with that logo, and if you can believe it they sell them at Disneyland (AKA the kingdom of the evil mouse)

My guess is that every time you get a guy that's ALL about how the stock fits, he's either primarily a shotgun shooter, or was taught to shoot by someone that was. Those guys really ARE all about how the gun fits, and considering that most traditional shotguns have a sighting setup typical of a matchlock from the 1630's, it's not too surprising.

At least nobody is asking for one of those excreble collapsible "tactical" stocks that you see on the AR-15s, those things are an abomination. I even see them being tacked onto guns that once sported real, workable stocks these days, in the rush to glom onto the marketing juggernaut that is the AR market. I can't imagine that anyone would think it's a good idea to put one on a 12 ga., for example, but someone makes an adapter to do just that. I imagine that after a few boxes of 3" heavy loads go downrange, they might change their minds.

Hi Rotor,

It's been my observation, that any gun will become "screwed up" in direction relation to the number of "adjustable features" you build into said unit. It also follows; that all poor adjustments will "stack" in the direction of total chaos. hahah. ;?)

GAry

This was a fun thread to follow. You can certainly tune a rifle to yourself, cheek piece and all. World class high power shooters like David Tubb certainly have custom rifles fitted to them and they can do amazing things with them. BUT the rest of the world usually has to deal with out of the box rifles with one size fits all stocks and ergonomics. Frankly, those are the rifles that I think are the most fun to shoot. Look at US military rifles. Standardized to the "ideal recruit", who ever that is. You have to learn to shoot what is handed to you. Don't go whining to the range officer about your cheek piece! Accuracy means building a solid shooting platform, regardless of your position, prone, sitting or standing. The rifle is held up snug in the "pocket" of your shoulder and is held high enough to allow you to look down the sights or throught the optic without dropping your head or twisting your neck. Sight alignment, sight picture, breathing and trigger control, and follow through. These fundamentals lead to reproducible shot placement. Its the Zen of it that makes it so much fun....and so difficult to be perfect. At least we know, that with a Barnes rifle, we have the best tool for accurate shooting that you can get!