I rebuilt that valve that had been damaged by the poor stainless spring. While I was in there, I tweaked a few things (based upon the previous range test). With things functioning as they should, I went back to the range this afternoon. I have some great numbers - thought the number guys among you may enjoy them.

First: I've found that my firing valve (with static regulator), will regulate from 3,600 psi all the way down to 900 psi. THAT is some fine window of regulation. 2,700 psi variation, and yet relative velocity. Excellent.

Now, for the velocity numbers.

Fill: 3,500 psi., Barnes Falcons 77.3 grains @ .318"

1. 858 fps. 2. 894 fps. 3. 918 fps. 4. 910 fps. 5. 904 fps. 6. 880 fps. 7. 860 fps. 8. 833 fps. 1,000/1,100 psi remains.

That's an avg. of 882.1 fps @ 133.6 fpe .... with a peak of 145 fpe. There's a nice 5 shot center to this bell curve. I think starting at 3,600 psi might even tighten that up.

For buckshot, intended for closer shooting, I went for a longer bell curve.

Fill: 3,600 psi

1. 910 fps. 2. 947 fps 3. 994 fps. 4. 1002 fps. 5. 1004 fps. 6. 994 fps. 7. 987 fps. 8. 959 fps. 9. 944 fps. 10. 915 fps 1,100/1,200 psi remains.

Very fine numbers I think.

Now ... for some pics.

I decided to mount a new Center Point scope I had still sealed in the package. I band sawed it out of that armor plated plastic pack ... mounted it on some riser blocks and simple Simmons mounts., Just right for the bell, and the shroud. I set out a plywood sandwich board at 25 yards to get on target. Now ... remember ... I'd completely disassembled the rifle to get to the firing valve. Freshly reassembled ... new scope out of the package ... simple mounts.



The very first shot was on elevation, and 3" to the right. I took the windage knob (which is a real target "knob" with clear labeling and precise clicks) ... and I spun it for left correction. The second shot with the scope, was a nice 10X on my POA. Ya gotta love that.



I'd brought a box of 32 caliber "stuff". And, Kelly had made coffee for me. Also funny ... all the fuss you read sometimes about shooting and caffeine (of course, I'm immuned to the stuff).



I'd made up this sandwich board from stout, solid plywood. Something to set out at various distance for sighting. Look how the slugs were ripping right thru both sides like a shower curtain. (Slugs traveling left to right ... the backer was an old long range target I found sitting in a corner).



The "exit" of a group of slugs - thru the second plywood and gone. This was solid 4 ply 1/2" front, and T111 5 ply back. That'll roll a peskie varmint.



A nice 50 yard five shot group. Note three in one hole.



And, another plywood Beaver set out at 50 yards and popped five times quick.

OK ... the gun ships tomorrow. This is a really valid model which I'm even more pleased with now than when I developed it. The Ranger Series has matured very nicely since 97 I think.

Gary



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2009 01:38AM by barnespneumatic.

Excellent work Gary! The numbers are very impressive. You met the desired shot count and delivered an extra 100 FPS for a nice flat trajectory and the extra power that goes with it. I expect the beavers will have a hard time of it soon!

Wow . . . that's great! The 1000+ fps buckshot string will even please the "you can't hit anything without a laser" crowd. I hope it gets lots of use.

Gotta love those "anti-theft" plastic shell packages which can cause one to lose a few fingers! I never understood how they're anti-theft -- wouldn't the crooks just steal the whole thing?

The range still looks pretty sloppy . . . isn't it supposed to rain today too?

-- Jim

The range is a quagmire of sloppy, sticky mud. The road in is full of mud holes you could loose a truck in. Just some of the things I endure in order to fulfill the wishes of my clients.

Yes - supposed to actually snow this weekend. Lovely.

Common Spring.

Gary

Gary,

Just so I understand this right,

Every once in awhile you you let out a drop of info, on how these things work.

The internal regulator between the reservoir and the firing valve lets out the a calculated volume of air v.s. pressure, even though the pressure is getting lower each shot (3600 to 900psi). So the firing valve which is pre-adjusted spring loaded and opens the same amount of time, each time, At least it try's to, but as pressure goes now it stays open just a nanosecond longer, will release about same volume of air, for that flatter bell curve of shots. That is a WOW?

The pressure as it goes down affects how the firing valve works against the spring. That's how you get a locked gun from the firing valve not opening against the to high of pressure. But the regulator would have metered less volume but higher pressure in this case, but it was just to much for what the spring was set for.

In the operating pressure range of the gun, does the pressure drop affect the regulator more or the firing valve? And this is what you are forever tweaking, to balance them for the job at hand.

Do you have big chart for all of this? Am I somewhat close, or is this in the realm of secrets. Dory

Hi Dory,

A chart.

Yeah, I tried to make one ... but scribing the nanosecond time periods across the bottom, with a crayon, just sort of gave me a headache.

The biggest thing that the valve fights is the back pressure from the remaining psi in the reservoir. Once the valve opens, that pressure is trying to close it again. Light opening a door in a wind storm. There are a hundred things I do to make that work. And, as with my anology of the door in the wind storm ... you can imagine ... you open it wrong, or get the wind coming from the side ... and you get the door ripped off it's hinges.

Gary

Gary,

That's the big difference between the Yukon58 vs Delta32 is the size of the hinges. Dory

Nice numbers and accuracy Gary. It'll roll some pests alright!
Regards
Neil

That adult-proof packaging drives me nuts. Even with a pair of EMS shears that can cut through sheet metal you still have a hard time getting anything out of one. I can't count the times that I've given blood trying to get some el-cheapo toy out of a heat-sealed plastic clamshell. The worst part is how often it turns out that the stupid package is tougher and better built than the toy itself.

Your latest .32 seems like a very nice piece of work. It's certainly got a different look, with the shround diameter being so much larger than the reservoir, very distinctive. I'd love to shoot one like it some day, it's super-quiet report is bound to make it very pleasant to shoot.

It's shipped. And, after having been told for 13 years how stupid I am for not going to a Pack and Ship place ... I looked one up. (I had been frightening by one when I was younger ... They'd given me a hard time, and I'd not gone back. They're gone now anyway. But I tried it again today. And ...

The gun is now winging it's way ... slowly (it will be there Tues.) to N.C. The box assembly it's in is about 9 foot long (one box trying to swallow another equal dimension box - end to end). The ladies alligator wrestled the two equal sized boxes into a mangled version of a telescoping sleeve. I suggested slicing one seam until it was compressed together ... but they said UPS was "anal" and would not allow that. Whatever that means.

Instead, they split the seam by hanging from the upper box with their feet off the floor, trying to force it closed ... somewhat.

They forgot the pellets and letter, so they then cut the end open and tossed that in. And taped the whole thing up. Somehow ... that was different than taping one side seam (although the side's end to end lap joint is all taped up).

I did a google search and used the phone book. Only one place kept coming up ... about 25 miles away. But ... I was committed to try it once. So ... I called, and went.

And ... it only cost $150 for packing, postage, and ins. I'm unconvinced. I know, I know. Everybody else has one next door that does a wonderful job for practically nothing. Some of the problem is that UPS charges far more than USPS ... I could have had overnight Express service for less. This will take five days!

Boy .... If I ever charged what it's worth to deliver one of these things ... haha ... ;?)

It always sucks up the prime portion of a day ... no matter how I do it. Build a crate, cut out styrofoam interior, clean and pack it, screw closed and label it, drive to ship it, wait in line, fill out forms and pay ... most of a day. Inventory cases bought during hunting season or order on-line otherwise (store them in your way all year), clean and pack the gun, cover case in cardboard (which you've stored in your way all year), take to ship it, wait in line, fill out forms and pay ... a day. Drive 40 minutes to the pack/ship place, discuss it, convince them it's an airgun and explain the value, watch them alligator wrestle it, fill out forms, pay, drive back home (stop by the attorney's office since you are going nearby) ... a day. Have someone pick it up here, prepare, greet, tour, visit, explain/demonstrate, coffee, goodbye ... a day.

One more out the door ............ priceless.

Gary

you make it sound so easy......

My wife was in the same boat. Shipping artwork worth several thousand dollars. Only took 5 years or so to get to the point of shipper, and shipping company to trust each other.....

The aforementioned numbers are with the spring that you wound, and not the commerical one?

Hi Dan,

I missed your question. yes - that's my wrapped spring in the valve. Now ... that's not a hammer spring ... it's an internal reservoir spring. Keeps the valve closed for filling, and has some minor role in closing the valve during firing (though most of that function is done by the remaining reservoir pressure).

Gary

Gary,

Check out Fedx they are cheaper, usually than UPS, especially for oversize items..
Heck for NC you probably could have met half way. Saved time and money. And had a road trip besides. Yes UPS is anal. But it pays off in long run. If you have 350,000 employees you have to have some good check and balances.

Do you know one of the reasons they changed from a box with string tie for a symbol. Besides rebranding it's image a little. A lot of new and overseas customers thought, that's how they wanted them to wrap their packages.Dory

Well, Gary; sometimes you have to challenge your assumptions and figure out all over again that you were right all along! Sorry, looks like you got caught again in the "good idea" trap.

I just checked and I can tell you that Express shipping cost $113 for the Woodsman. I know because I just pulled out the sturdy box you made that is sitting right here ready to ship the gun anywhere it will ever have to be sent. The box certainly is not without cost in materials or time but gas for the drive and the time watching gymnastics at the Pac'n'Ship is not without cost either. I cam't see where this experience leads anywhere other than back to where you started!

Rough night last night. I missed this post too.

It's just one of those things that has to be done ... but gets no glory. It seems like a waste of time after the gun is complete. But ... you are correct ... the crate is something that waits to ship the gun wherever it's needed. However; you might be surprised to find out that few people keep them. I was shocked ... but they've been tossed, burned, crushed. Anything but kept. And, I've gotten guns back for service pretty much in a paper towel (because the crate was gone). After all the stories I've read about some old orig. cardboard box doubling the value of a BB gun, I found it even more odd.

For me ... it's an issue of keeping sheet goods (1/4" plywood and various thicknesses of dense styrofoam). Then, I have to be able to handle them ... and you've seen my shop. I have no room to work with 4 by 8 sheets of stuff. So - it's outside on the tressles. In the winter ... I hate it. I can't get the crate into the shop ... until it's complete!

It is alot of work. I've had guns shift inside cases and be scratched ... even had a stock broken once. So - the crate is the best ... but costs time and money - and adds weight to ship.

I thought, perhaps; that this pack and ship just might work. That they'd have a dozen sizes of boxes and materials. Seemed like they just grabbed something and forced it. Wasn't clean at all.

I think you should pick them up and ship them from now on. ;?)

Gary



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2009 11:00PM by barnespneumatic.

Hmmmm... Pick them up and ship them. Doesn't sound too hard. I wonder what might make that profitable for me? Maybe if you gave me the guns 6 months before you posted any of the pictures of progress and range testing? That might give me time to supplement the "testing" and be certain we have the right slug for the gun. I'm sure the field, er, I mean controlled shooting labratory testing would yield invaluable feedback for you too.

I went to the Pack and Ship ... had no choice as to chooseing the carrier. They use UPS. If Fed Ex will show up here with a bunch of boxes, bubble wrap, and tape ... and wrap and ship it from my dining room table. Then that's what I'll do next time.

The LAST thing I ever want is a "road trip".

I know ... it's always simple as pie. Never seems to be on this end. ;?)

Gary



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2009 01:44PM by barnespneumatic.

Funny story Dory, about the changing of the logo to avoid string wrapped packages. Ya can't think of everything! haha.

Gary

I've worked the sort at UPS as a temp during the Christmas rush. The REAL logo oughta be a big brown boot crushing a box flat...a box that's clearly marked "fragile". The boxline I worked had a regular conveyer belt at the end which accomodated overflow traffic, and the plain truth was that there was nothing at the end of the belt except a long fall to a concrete floor. The THEORY was that all boxes down the belt would be picked up in the first pass and loaded into the trucks. The actual practice was that everyone on that belt was a seasonal employee and we had basically NO idea what we were doing, so most of the boxes got re-cycled over and over until we finally figured out which truck they got loaded in. Some of them got dropped dozens of times until the supervisor finally admitted that they were on the wrong belt. ALL of them got drop-kicked into the trucks when the mass of packages got too great for us to handle. The pace was incredibly fast, and they worked us like ponies at a fat girls birthday party. It didn't help that the shift started at 2:45 AM, right when your body is telling you in no uncertain terms that you should be asleep. Not my first choice of vocations, but it was a college job and I really needed the money.

People would ship the most unlikely things, like six-foot long flourescent light tubes packed loose in a single-wall box. Needless to say, I never saw one of those come through intact. Packaging makes ALL the difference; we also got a lot of cathode ray tubes on our sort and none of them ever got broken. The difference was that they were packed in a thick form-fitting styrofoam shell, nestled inside a sturdy cardboard box and well taped. The only thing that UPS could never damage was tires, which you can ship anywhere with just a label on them. NO amount of abuse by a package monkey can equal what a tire goes through every day in normal use.

Later on I worked for a helicopter operator that had it's own special foam gun for packing parts. What you'd do was pick or make a box a bit bigger than the part to ship, and drop in a plastic bag of foam to fill about a third of the box. Then you'd nestle the part inside the box, on top of the bag full of hardening foam. After it had set up a bit, you'd fill another bag with foam to fill the leftover space above the part, pushing it down to form to the shape of the part. If you guessed right, you could close the box up and it would fit perfectly. If you were a bit short, you could fill another bag to fit on top of the last one and tape it up. If you overdid it, you yanked out the top bag and started that part over again. The trick was to make sure that you ALWAYS checked the bags for pinholes first, and carefully bag your parts before you start so that you'd never get any foam stuck directly to the expensive bits. That two-part polyurethane foam is great when you want to insulate something or fill cracks, but it's the stickiest stuff I've ever worked with and NOTHING gets it off once it dries. It seems like a lot of trouble to pack something that way, but when you're shipping turbine discs or blade spindles or the like it's cheap insurance. The cost of helicopter parts can be astromomical; pieces you can easily hold in one hand might cost as much as a house.

You could accomplish the same thing with a disposable can of foam that you buy at Home Depot, but it would pay to practice with a similar-shaped object first. The last thing you want to do is to entomb your precious objects in a morass of hardening polyurethane, or slop a quart of the stuff over your shop floor and your favorite pair of pants.

UPS has their own package engineers. All they do is figure out safer ways to pack stuff. Cuts back on the insurance bill, since their self insured. Dory

I spent my college years working at UPS too. In the tunnel washing the trucks. Lovely job. But - for the time (circa 1972), it was real good money.

The trucks would come in thru an air door that roared all the time. They'd get a quick spray. Then, you'd scrub the whole thing with brushes. However; alot of routes were rural and, on rainy days or in the winter, the dual wheels would come in with the hub packed level full of mud. You'd try to dig the stuff out with the brush handle, all while the clock was ticking. You stayed wet and cold all the time. And, bent over far too long. Rinse it and it would go thru another air door to dry it (and blow the water all over you). Lovely time. Good thing I was 17 and 18 at the time.

Yeah ... I understand the foam concept. My luck would be that the hole in the bag would co-incide with the bore of the barrel, the breech,and the fill nipple.

haha.

Gary

What I need is an employee who sleeps upstairs in the shop, works for soup and Friday night spending money. One of those wiry guys that's never sick, and has the energy of a 3 year old. ;?)

well, I'm wiry and I pretty much never get sick and have the energy of a 3 year old....unfortunately, my day job would prevent the other requirements ;-)

haha

Bill,

You're just gonna have to set your priorities dude! You know ... that Dr. gig might not last. A bowl of soup and a cot might look PRET-TEE good.

Gary

I'll send Chris over right away....

That's great! I'll take 'em.

Hey ... experience with casting too! That sweetens the deal.

Gary

I'm presently out of work, and I like soup... can I have the job?

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Hey Gary, don't get all worked up over a bit of polyurethane down the muzzle. Just keep that stuff off the WOOD, for goodness sake!

You know your rifles are all immediately welded securely in gun safes to collect rust and dust forevermore, nobody will ever know the bore is plugged with foam (I'm almost kidding). It's too bad that so many of your rifles have dropped off the face of the earth and disappeared from view, it'd be nice to see a few more of them out there from time to time. It's not like you're charging extra for that hole down the middle of the barrel, after all. ; )

And don't despair of getting your own highly trained yet barely-paid apprentice/shop slave just yet. If Obama manages to nationalise health-care, there's gonna be thousands of lawyers out of work overnight. Give it a year or two later, and a bunch of the doctors are gonna want to follow the lawyers down to the VO-TECH section of the local community college.

If he somehow manages to get health-care costs down to the point where the federal government can foot the whole bill for ALL of us, the only guys making any money after school will be plumbers and union electricians.

Your help-wanted ad isn't gonna look so bad after all. ; )

Rotor,

You've missed your calling. "Motivational Speaking" ... that's the place for you. Up there on the stage in your black hooded shroud and sickle. Glowing red eyes boring into the audience. heheh. I thought I had that gig all wrapped up. hahah.

You're right. And, I plan to pick up a few of those attorneys cheap too. I've got stove pipes to clean. Bluing tanks to tend. I'm sure they can be re-educated to do an honest day's work. Now ... the Docs. That's another matter. I plan to have my own clinic to tend to me. Every morning, I'll go sit in my own waiting room for an hour and a half having coffee and toast, before my appt. hehe.

The guns. Oh ... now ... that's depressing. You bet. Each and every gun I've ever delivered was done so to the promise of feedback, pictures, targets, stories, canned hams, chocolates. And, 95% disappear. Sort of like doing the final polishing and then taking it and throwing it over a cliff into the sea. Start another. I'd love to see the dozens of vanished rifles I double and triple checked over at the range, before shipping. The website is full of the pictures of targets I shot with them ... and then ... into the black void.

OK ... off into the snow storm. I need a special size of steel today. Man ... sending a kid like me, out in a storm like this, to buy a cold bar of steel. Just doesn't seem right. hahah.

Gary

Now I feel like just curling up in the fetal position and waiting for the end...

Jerry,

Dude, I needed some of your boys today to do some shoveling (for free).

Seems nobody comes around and shovels out the old coots anymore. So, I had to do it myself. And, I feel like a stomped on toad frog. Yes sir.

Perk up. No need to curl up. Stand tall and wait for the end like the rest of us who did the right thing, and now get to pay for the pork. Hey ... at least those guns will be there in the morning. Should even go up in value.

Gary

Don't try to cheer me up. I'm too busy feeling negative right now...

"For free" Oh, that's a good one!

Ah, yes, another 12" of snow here, how picturesque!!!!!

Made it in to the Hospital this AM, though, spent all day in surgery

2 knee replacement, 2 rotator cuff repairs, and repaired an ice-related fractured ankle in a 375 lb diabetic woman!!!

won't make it by to shovel, Gary....sorry ;-)

like the other guys said, maybe by next year if Obama has "fixed" healthcare...I'll be available as your personal orthopedic surgeon -hehe

I mean, you've got 2 knees and 2 hips,right, there's 4 things I can fix right there!

Ah shucks ... you can do better than that. Ya have the whole back you can fuse! hehe.

I saw that video on a tractor-afficionado site about a week ago...very cool invention. I especially like the way that it's just a "kit" that attached to a regular tractor, which you could convert back for the rest of the year. I'll bet you could sell one of those today, perhaps as an add-on to an ATV which would normally just be parked for the winter. You could make the cylinders out of some flexible and indestructable plastic like they use for canoes or trash bins, or maybe aluminum with the flats covered in HDPE so it would slide more easily over the snow.

I imagine that there would probably be some safety issues if you sold one today; those rotating cylinders and exposed chain drives just beg for a lawyer to get involved after someone does something stoopid. To be honest, an enclosed vehicle would probably be a a better bet for winter anyway. We've all become accustomed to little luxuries in our vehicles like actually being able to see through the windshield and not freezing to death.

The tracks it leaves behind are pretty cool as well, they look like a pair of fat sidewinders just slithered by.

Speaking of snow:

[www.flixxy.com]

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Excellent. Back when industry was free to invent solutions to real problems.

Though ... the fact that these things are not common to our experience, tells me there was more to the story. Someone didn't want these things to succeed.

Gary

Well, maybe it was combining a Ford tractor and a Chevy car in the same pitch! The inventor probably lost both potential sponsers instead of gaining either. BTW, how did that thing handle Gary?

The tractor version would shake your kidneys out. But, the Chevy wasn't so bad.

I could have used the Chevy today!

It would certainly save a lot of vehicles from rust, not to mention all that expense for roadsalt...

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And it would be a great way to get to those hard to reach shooting areas!