Here ya go Kurt!

Recall I worked this out for the Washington's Hatchet (Black Pearl Class) 50 Cal.



The shell requires a bottom driving chip to push the pellets. The center of the bottom must open to the blast, in order for the shot load to seperate. If the bottom is closed, the entire she'll will fly as a slug.

The "Chip/Wad" on the bottom a 7/16" slice of wooden dowel. The cartridge is just a section of index card 2" long - scotch taped up the side. It's folded over at the top. I used lead .190" shot. As you see the whole unit weighed 343.84 grains.





This shot well. Open well.

You would muzzle load the whole shell. Determine your ramrod to position the shell just forward of your loading port. Hope you have fun with it. Lead shot will not hurt your barrel. If you want to use a brass brush afterwards, that won't hurt either.

Gary

BLACK PEARL CLASS - Barnes designation of a Prototype which leads off a significant feature development. They will, of course, be very well made; but will not necessarily include the carving/engraving/etching, which set apart the "Black Diamond Class".

BLACK DIAMOND CLASS - Barnes designation distinguishing the finest of the fine, in Barnes' work. They will carry one or more of Carving (wood and or steel), engraving, etching, anodizing, and many other art forms. All such artwork will be by Barnes, himself.

Gary

A given Barnes PCP, may indeed be BOTH a "Black Pearl" AND "Black Diamond".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2016 07:06PM by barnespneumatic.

Way cool Gary
So you know what I'll be doing this weekend !
Thanks a bunch

Thanks
Kurt

I like that Gary! Maybe it will work on other guns too. Is velocity an issue with this, and/or what would you be looking at for a starting speed?
Thanks much,
Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Well, the shot column will leave the tube at about the velocity of a slug of the same weight. I'll do an educated guess of about 850 fps. I suspect it will remain very effective for squirrel/rabbit type game at 40 yards. IIRC it will have about a 25-30 inch pattern out there.

Now the rifled barrel is a wild card, but I don't think it will matter. The case should land as a shredded mess about 10 yards down range. The paper cases always show the dark spots where the ball, inside the paper case, presses the card stock into the barrel hard enough to leave a very dark print. Now; it's my conclusion that the breech blast begins to start the acceleration of the shot column. That pressure is not only linear. If possible, the ball would go off in a 180 degree spread, BUT; the barrel walls restrict the side pressure. The shot column, being pushed from the bottom, tries to make the bottom layer of ball pass those ahead of it. That makes the side pressure. I think it's this side pressure that presses the ball hard against the barrel walls - AND THUS - I think the case rides the length of the barrel surrounding the shot. The imprint of the ball is clean and in one exact position. It's not a random mess and/or changing position.

So; at least in a smooth bore, I think the shot ball never touch the barrel wall. I think they ride inside the tube of paper. Once the shell exits the muzzle, the muzzle blast punches out the wooden plug, tears apart the shell casing, and the shot begin their flight more or less as a stacked column. The side pressure in the rifled barrel will definitely product some rotation. I'm not sure if the friction will shred the card stock earlier, or not. The cartridge could be lubed with something like Crisco Lard for a test of differences. However; you need to be sure the cartridge stays put in front of the loading port. There isn't a safety issue, it's just that the port and chambering would add additional turbulence. If the cartridge would not tend to stay put, make an additional paper tube to load first, down to the end of the reciever. So that would be an aux. tube the length from the inside of the loading window down to the extreme end of the threaded barrel stub, plus the length of the loading port. Might be 2 1/2" total?

I'm just telling you the full deal. You will know what applies.

Have fun. Stay safe. Keep your nose out of the muzzle!

Gary

Gary
That's a whole lot of good information very well thought out .

Thanks
Kurt

Hey Gary,
It makes sense and I like it. I don't have anything that big, but if I did I would sure be experimenting with it. I know years ago I read an article where someone said that is you fired shot from a rifled barrel it would make the pattern kind of 'swirl' when it exited the barrel and thus leave a hole in the middle of the pattern. That would be easy enough to discover in one or two shots. I think it would be a great way to hunt small game in close to the city, etc.
Thanks for the information,
Jeff

Gary
Well due to severe -windchill outside I got a warm inside cozy job .
I have a shim stock punch that I used to punch out my shot disc with and a piece of 1/8" rubber and an old credit card plastic made perfect disc's . As you all know I have #2 shot which is used in some of my carnival airmachine guns . I got 2 shells made and will probably check my pattern at a couple different distances . I used a recipe card as you suggested for the outside of my shells and just wrapped it around the punch that I used for the shot disc. I then taped it and slid discs into end and crimped . After that I slid out and fill with shot .

I know you said to muzzel load and honestly I'm alittle freaked out about sticking a home made shell down the barrel of my Barnes 50 cal . and seating with a wood dowl . Now in my mind it's all lead , paper, and rubber but..... I'm going to do it cause Gary said so . It's just nothing I've even thought of even though I loaded many 12 Gage in my day .
One thing that comes to mind is an old cigarette rolling machine that my dad had . It's got a big handle on top and a card fits perfect . I drop in my shot and disc and BAM I banging out shells .

Thanks for the great idea ! I really love to make my own projectiles .

Now you know I'll hafta make and stow an acceptable ram rod ifin I go small game hunting with my .50 ! That could open up a whole bunch of fun projects !

Thanks
Kurt



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2016 11:50PM by kurt wag.

Hi Kurt,

You won't hurt your barrel. Will be a fun experiment. Remember 3 things:

1). Keep your nose out of the barrel.

2). Make sure your bottom wad is loose, and the crimp doesn't close over it totally. You need about 5/16" open diameter for the blast to open the shell. Otherwise, you will shoot big honkin slugs!

3). Make sure your ramrod seats the shell "forward" of the loading port. If it's snug, you are good. If it is likely to slide down into the loading area, maybe paper wrap the bottom sides with tissue for a snug fit when loading.

I expect about 18" main pattern at 30 yards.

Gary

Hey Kurt,
Now that looks like it going to be fun! Enjoy the experiments.
Later,
Jeff

Kurt,
Nice job on the shot shells! I like your Idea for pumpin a bunch of them out...looks like the rabbits and squrilles around your place are in for some trouble!

Matt

Well my shot shells turned out to small . I should have wrapped the whole recipe card into the cylinder but I cut it in half . I'm thinking also since I used 1/8" thick rubber by 7/16 " round maybe if I went up to 1/2" round rubber and stayed with 7/16" plastic backer ( exposed to air blast ) . It would be just enough . I went with credit card plastic backer because I've used them on a lot of cup/ u seals on hydro cylinders .


What cha think Gary ? I know you said wood dowel but ...

Thanks
Kurt

Hi Kurt,

Well, first question .... do you have an endless supply of credit cards to cut up? Hhaha. Then, I'd expect a thin wad to twist in the bore more readily. Not sure. I was glad to not have to punch material. Just zip off cross sections of dowel with the bandsaw. Whatever works.

Also, you could just spray glue a card and wrap it around a waxed steel shaft of correct size. Avoids scotch tape residue. Obviously the key is to take the time to get your kit and process together. Then it will go easy.

Might try a clean release masking tape. They usually have a waxy skin. You could also easily "tune" your slug to fit with a bottom band of masking tape. You need it just go shoot one before you are set up to go into production, see what you learn. Does it open? Did it pattern? Then tune your process. I think it will work. If I had a 50 I'd try it.

Gary

Gary
Thanks for tips . All good ideas . I did try using a sticky note for cylinder because of the sticky . It was kinda flimsy but the masking tape at the bottom sounds great .
The punching is easy with my little set up . You just slide material in and tap with small hammer and they pop out the bottom . I chose the rubber because it was in the box already from the last washers seals I made and I don't have any wood dowels or band saw ..

I hope to shoot a couple rounds this weekend . It's suppose to be high 40's

Thanks
Kurt

Kurt .....

No Band Saw!!!!?????

OMG ...... You poor thing!!! How do you make it thru the day without a band saw???

Ok. I'll be listening for your testing. . Enjoy!!

Gary