...at distance, over on the Hunting section. I was pessimistic, thinking a small light Bob Vogel .308 slug wouldn't do too well at distance. Jerry shared his experience when a light slug did well, to his surprise. Well, to my surprise, the wee 68 grainer did pretty darn well when I shot some at 100 yards today (I had a day off and decided to test a few slugs):

This was the best performer of the various slugs I tried today, and just barely sub MOA is a good result on a windy day in my books! Jerry, you were right.... (That big hole is part of a 1.5" 3 shot Maxiball group from my .50 cal, best of the day for the .50)
Here's some other Bob V slugs I tested, none of which I would sniff at, as they all fall well within the kill-zone at 100 yards...



The 158 grain slug surprised me, being long and not particularly aerodynamic-looking, but it hit the paper quite cleanly compared to some others I have shot. Add to this that some of these slugs have been sized to .308, whereas my gun seems to prefer slightly bigger.
More testing to do......including the wet telephone book test for expansion.

Cheers
Neil

Great post Neil! Thanks.

Although, I wish you'd have labeled which ones were the .308s and which were the 50 cals. hehehe., You know ... for our readers who don't shoot.

I'm sooo bad ...

Gary

Neil,

Great results there! It looks like you have several slugs to choose from that will work. I can never choose so I end up putting the hold overs in short term memory and then repeating my sight in the next time out. I always leave the range with one slug dialed in at a given range and a good idea of the hold under/over for that slug though. I should really write more stuff down but I always end up touching the knobs again...

The nice thing about the short light slugs is that if they fly really really good at 50, you have a good chance that they will fly very well out to 100 and still be moving good enough to be in the sight picture for a simple hold over shot.

I saw that you posted this on the Yellow and someone was amazed that big bores could be accurate out to 100 yards. Some people just read enough do they! They need to come over here and see how we define long range...could be a whole 'nuther surprise!

Hi Neil,

That 158 grain HP ... is the front of that "bore riding"? They look tapered to my eye.

Gary

Hehehe, Jerry, that person obviously hadn't seen your 200 yard kill!
Gary, I'm not familiar with "bore-riding", but I will run the digital callipers over them and try to work out the shape of them. In the meantime, can you educate me on this term?
Cheers
Neil

Hello Neil,

Certainly ... pull up a toad stool ...

As you know, the rifling "bites into" the slug to steer it. On very long slugs, this causes more friction than is needed. Therefore; some slugs are made to be "land diameter" in front, and "groove diameter" at the back. Some only have a few "drive rings" which are at "groove diameter". There are various stages of this. Some might just take a very shallow engraving on the front.

Just a look at your long slugs made me think that you might find the front end to be a smaller diameter than the back. If so, then the front of the slug is guided mostly by just fitting tightly and being enclosed by the "lands" of the rifling - thus: "bore-riding".



Gary

Hi Neil,Great post.Are these groups off one fill or are they fired line fed ?.Also how do the 120gn hollows crono up?.Nice groups by the way.Danny

Gary, you are right about the taper on the 158 grain HP, that front driving band is a shade under .307. It's not until the large middle band that it reaches .308. So yep, bore-riding it is. Thanks for the explanation.

Danny, the gun was tethered for those groups. I think the 120 grainer shoots at about 890. I have done some tests on velocity, expansion and penetration and will post when I get a chance

Cheers

Neil

Those are all some SERIOUSLY hollow point slugs. Have you tried others that aren't? I have a pistol that shoot solids much more accurately than hollowpoints, it just seems to like the weight forward. Just a thought...

Hi Rotor
I have found that the best accuracy from both my .308 and my .50 cal have been HP's.


(In that last pic ignore the .308 hole mixed in with the .50 group).
Don't ask me why....I have theories like you can shoot a longer, lighter slug faster if it's an HP, with long being an advantage for stability, but I really don't know the answer.
Cheers
Neil

Those are some seriously fine groups Neil. Well done!

Gary

I've only rarely shot a hundred-yard sub-inch group with ANY rifle, let alone an airgun. That .316 group is one to hang onto for bragging rights!

Well, i tell ya what, those are some darned fine groups. Especially for an air gun.

The Maxi Balls design usually prooves to be very accurate in most guns. Powder or air.

Neil,

It looks like the longer slugs have some precession. The lead smear is to one side. It's clearest on the 158's. The 161's look like they have some but grouped tightly, the other two long slugs dispersion seemed to correlate with the amount.

Lon

Thanks Gary, Rotor and Tofaz. I like to look back on those particular groups now and then....

Lon, your comment about precession is interesting. I can't understand how that 161 grain slug can be so accurate despite throwing its tail around in flight. I must do some more reading ...

Cheers
Neil

Hi Neil,Fantastic group there,Precession is the force that hellicopters use to bank or why boomerangs come back or why when you hold a bike wheel by the axle and get someone to spin it and then try to ulter it's axis it will pull around the axis(try it some time ). Gyroscopics is a subject that has always intrigued me although I'm no expert on the matter.It is also why low velocity guns like pcp's can show some interesting groups out at distance (Dependent on the gun and slug etc).If a slug is overstableized it wants to hold the axis of spin true to what it was when it left the barrel,However the arc of the bullet of course meens that the sug ends up on a descending course that is'nt true to the line of the barrel.If the slug is of the high tail drag type often used in air rifles the aerodynamics of the slug forces it to assume the same line of travel,If this happens then the force of preccesion will come into play and the slug will take on an arce in it's path.If the slug is of a more conventional design it is more likely to retain the line of axis from the barrel,In this instance the foreward underside of the slug ends up taking the approach.With more resistance on the undrside the slug will tend to walk the direction of rotation(much like the prop walk on a boat) .In the case of your .308 DAQ I think the opposite is happening and the slugs are simply reaching the end of there stability.Try moveing the target out another 10 yards and you may find that the slugs do the same but at a different point around the clock.MR Clark arms has obviously made a nice job of the .50cal and you've found the ideal slug not to forget your shooting skills.Regards Danny.

Hi Danny
Thanks for the run-down on precession. I will do some more testing one day, to see how the long slugs behave at various distances. One thing I did notice a while back was that I seemed to be getting better groups at 100 yards than at 75. So I'm wondering if its possible for the slugs to be wandering a lttle at that distance but back on track by 100....? Need to do more testing.
Cheers
Neil

Hi Neil and All.I've also had occosions when my guns would shoot better groups out at distance than in at closer range.Sometimes I think it was either the barrel I used (usually a second handy of a Rifle)being worn or simply having the wrong rifleing pitch.Other times it may have been because the fireing valve was still open when the slug left the barrel.I found that by fitting a muzzle break or muzzel break type moderator took out some of the randomness and tightened the groups considerably. Is your DAQ threaded ?,if so what is the thread,I'm bound to have something around here that I can send up for you to try Neil.Regards to all Danny

Hi Danny
Yes the DAQ is threaded. I have a long sound moderator for it that you can see in the pic below. I did a little test at 50 yards on the weekend, which shows that it affects the POA by about 1 1/2 " (low) at that distance, with the grouping about the same. I know from tests way back that at longer distances the moderator widens up the groups, but that may be caused by the internal baffles, I don't really know..?
Cheers
Neil

It just peeves me that we have to get a special (and expensive and intrusive) licence to have a sound supressor on a firearm here in the U.S. Given that basically nobody actually LIKES to hear gunshots at a firing range (including most shooters) it doesn't make any sense at all for our government to make them so difficult to legally own for gunpowder arms. It's like having adding a special tax and licence to mufflers for motorcycles, or requiring engines on jets to make EXTRA noise, instead of less. The argument that it somehow contributes to criminal activity is specious in the extreme. It would be like saying that installing mufflers on cars somehow makes them into vehicles for bank robbers.

Loathe than I am to find anything positive in European firearms legislation, at least some of those countries have a more enlightened view on fireams sound supressors, like France or Finland. Think of how much easier it would be to have a shooting range for a neighbor if the average Joe could go to WallyWorld to buy an over-the-counter supressor for his Glock or Model 700.

Is there a category for "Dumb Government Tricks" out there somewhere?

I hear ya on that one Rotor. Its always guys like us that are LAW ABIDING that pay for what the criminals do. I'm not even going to get started as my blood is boiling right now....arrrgggghhhh on the government.