Well, I didn't get to shoot anything this weekend but I did spend some time on the hobby. I mixed up some home made ballistic gel. I now have 4 blocks of the stuff in the fridge. Each block is just over 3" deep by 4.5" wide by 7" long.

I'm not sure what to shoot it with yet.

I was thinking I would start with a baseline shot from the Monsoon shooting a 14.3gr .22 pellet making about 29-30 FPE. Then I could shoot it with the P-3 at about 100-120 FPE and finally, blast it with the Woodsman shooting a slug. I don't expect it to be useable after the Woodsman shot.

I figure the Monsoon shot will stop in one block shot lengthwise. The P-3 shot will probably pass into a block passed behind and the Woodsman shot will blow things into pieces. I'd like to get video of all the shots so I'll have to wait on good light and conditions. If the gel is recoverable, it can be re-melted and re-formed. We'll just have to see how that goes...

What's the consistency? Unless it's really dense, I'd suspect the 30 fpe pellet will blow thru. I recall trying to stop 20 fpe .177" pellets here in the yard that would blow right thru heavy rubber, truck mud flaps. Be interesting to see.

What goes into the stuff?

Gary

The consistency is equivelent to flesh. It is made of a ten percent solution of gelatine in water. This mix results in density that is very close to the stuff the FBI uses for penetration testing. The gelatine is marketed by Knox for a variety of purposes, my mother used to drink the stuff to help strengthen her finger nails! They now have a separate product for that. The gelatine comes in little packets of powder. It is made from animal scraps... To make it into ballistic gel it is carefully rehydrated, melted at low temperature and then chilled.

The stuff I made feels about right but we'll have to see. If all goes according to plan the penetration should be representative of shooting animal flesh.

Consistency equal to flesh! Uhoooohhhhh!!!!!!

Animal scraps! Uhooooohhhhh!!!!

REhydrated .... Uhoooohhhh!!!

Shoot it!!! Shoot it!!!

Gary

barnespneumatic Wrote:
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> Consistency equal to flesh! Uhoooohhhhh!!!!!!
>
> Animal scraps! Uhooooohhhhh!!!!
>
> REhydrated .... Uhoooohhhh!!!
>
> Shoot it!!! Shoot it!!!
>
> Gary
LOL
Watch out, Gary has just re-medicated

Re-medicated .... Uhoooooooohhh!!!

Hey ... perfect timing. My 3pm watch alarm just went off. Yummm. More pills.



Gary

It appears all are satisfied with my plan and have no ideas to offer. Either that or nobody is willing to share any opinions...at least until after the shots.

Actually, there is plenty of time for folks to come up with any great idea they might have. I want to capture the shots into the ballistic gel on high speed video and I need really good light to do that. I also need some help or I need to set the shutter to 10 second delay and then run back to the firing position while counting seconds off! You really don't want to make me run 40 yard dashes and then try to hit a precise target do you? Anyhow that means that unless it is exceptionally bright after work this week, I probably can't shoot until the weekend. I'd like to get some or all of these shots on 1000 FPS video so that means shooting at around 1100-1300 on Saturday unless it is cloudy.

Has anyone here ever shot into ballistic gel? Anything I should take into consideration to avoid a known limit?

I was looking at some shots from the web. One showed some damage to the boards under the gel from the expansion impact going in all directions, from the expansion of the gel. Dory

Dory,
I saw a clip on TV where the support plywood was actually broken by a shot from a .308. A previous shot from a .223 had done damage but the .308 did far more. It will be neat to see what the different airguns do. I need to figure out how to support and keep the gel blocks in place. I'd hate to have one tip off the board just before impact! I've got ideas in mind for the .22 and .32 shots but I'm concerned about the .62 just blasting everything off the table as it were.

I'm fairly confident that for the .22 I can just lay two of the blocks end to end on a flat surface and be good. For the .32, because I can place the shot so accurately, I should be able to place all 4 blocks end to end where I'm shooting into the 3"x4.5" face and get a good result. For the .62 I need to give myself a little more room for error. I thought I might stand up the blocks so I'd be shooting into a 4.5"x 7" face but that only gives me a 12-13" depth. Maybe that is plenty but I just don't know for sure. A 12ga. loaded with #2 buckshot is supposed to have about 12" of penetration but at a shorter range. At worst, the big slug blows apart the 4 blocks of gel and collapses the support structure all on slow-mo video! I'll need to lay out some cheese cloth to collect the bits for re-melting I think....

I suspect the P3 is gonna blow right through, first time!!
Try to angle the camera so you can see the exit as well(Director Pab sits back in his chair well pleased)
If you tie a string to the trigger, and email me the other end, I'm there for you buddy
Gonna be fancinating to see the footage and how that gel holds up.
Pukka work Jerry, and I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say thanks for the continuing videos and the upcoming ' Jerry & Gel, a brief romance! '

Ah, you gonna lay them that way.


Smart ass mode disengaged

' Jerry & Gel, a brief romance! ' a sad commentary on my personal life I'd say!

Jerry is Bill Cosby not a member of this forum? Well, I guess that's why he hasn't chimed in on what to do with an industrial sized Jell-O "shot". Can't waste a pun like that!

Lacking the great Coz, I'd suggest a contrasting colored background or white if it's cherry flavored.

After each shot, you might get a good view of the wound channel if you pour a chilled, but not solid, colored jello in the cavity and stick it back in the fridge. I believe the Jell-O package has a quick set method using ice for part of the water. This should also give you a fresh solid block to use for the next shot.

For a more reusable putty, I use electrical putty. It's sold at Home Depot in 1 lb blocks. It works ad feels like playdough but never drys out. I've used it to catch slugs to check rifling, as a silent back stop, as a penetration test, and mold them into varmits to shoot. Mine has gained a lot of weight as it has soaked up a lot of lead.

Shoot'em up Jerry!

Kent

Would dry bulk gelatin from a food co-op work ?

Kent,
This gelatin is not like Jello at all. It is very firm stuff and doesn't smell very good either. It is basically ground up pig gristle I believe. I sure wouldn't want to take a bite of it! I think the wound channel will mostly close up immediately after the shot, at least that what I've seen on TV...

Gunker,
I suppose if the dry gelatin you're thinking of is just gelatin made from animal "stuff" and not flavored or fortified with vitamins etc. it should be the same as what I got at the supermarket.

OK ... I clowned around some ... but I'm honestly still confused. You bought this stuff at the Supermarket? It's nothing like Jello as Kent suggested? You wouldn't want to take a bite of it ... 'cause it's made of ground up pig gristle? Ahhh ... my confusion might stem from wondering what in the heck something like that is doing in the Supermarket? And what does anyone do with it (who doesn't care to manufacture ballistic jell?)

Gary

Pig parts huh? Bill likes it.



Actually, Jerry's talking about the stuff made out of ground-up / boiled up bones and hides etc. Rather nasty, actually.

-- Jim



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2009 08:35PM by Jim.

I suspect that containment is gonna be an issue with the last shot. Maybe stick it in a container of some type, a 5 gallon bucket, or a large piece of PVC pipe with a cap on the end. If you've got one of those halogen work lights sitting around, they throw a pretty good beam and their color temp is fairly good for photography. Maybe aim one of them over your shoulder towards the target when you get ready to shoot. Perhaps you can draft one of the boys into working as your light holder/aimer and "chief gaffer" for the shoot. You'll have to credit them on the film, but at least you're not having to pay them union scale. ; )

Most of the ballistics jel work I've seen in the gun mags involves cutting the blocks in half after each shot to show the interior damage. I've seen it with contrast dye and without. I'll be interested to see what happens.

that ought to make a nice shot. jel confined inside a pvc pipe. i guess it would depend on what schedule it was.. dory

NUTS!!! When I got home today I took a few pictures of the gel I made and the darn camera broke! Everything seemed fine but when I turned the camera off it did not retract the lens like it usually does and I knew something was up. I changed batteries per the only troubleshooting step the company allows us idiots to know and ... nothing. Now the camera just sits there turning itself half-way on and then back off. Figures.

I called Casio on the handy 1-800 number and the brilliant "tech support" spent more time getting my name and zip code than trying to solve the problem. Apparently "tech support" is only there to read the "send it back" file for those who don't notice that item in the manual. Anyhow, instead of just telling me the address the "tech support" clerk tells me I need to talk to "repair" and gives me another 1-800 number. The helpful folks at "repair" take my info again and then provide an address to send the camera to. Great.

Off it goes tomorrow. I think I'd really rather take it by the strap and just beat it into a pulp but I don't have a budget for that kind of therapy!

So, Gary; your not going to see a picture of the gel here as I had hoped. Instead, take a look at this link and you'll see what it is: [www.myscienceproject.org].

And being that it costs more to "repair" your camera than to build a new one, they'll simply exchange it.

-- Jim

That's exactly what happened when I had to return my GPS nav system for repair. I got a brand new one back almost immediately. I'm good with that. I doubt there will be any significant difference to me between a repair and a replacement. I'm actually hoping they just send a replacement right away and save me the time of waiting on the whole diagnose, fix, test and ship cycle.

Yeah , I read that last night. Those guys have been having fun.

Your project is like Mythbuster's, they start building the tension. Then something breaks and they got to start over. It just yours is going to last 2 weeks instead of 30 minutes. Hopefully Casio will have back in a few days. Dory

I'd think containing it would be a bad idea.

Bullet wounds have 2 components: the termporay cavity and the permanent cavity. The temp cavity is the stretching/expanding of the ballistic gel/body tissue as the projectile passes thru.... a result of energy transfer during the bullet's journery thru the target, and the permanent cavity is just the hole left over. If you contain it. you wont get the same temp cavity results, and your terminal ballistic results may be skewed 'cause the gel was not allowed to react/expand to the bullet's flight. To be way too graphic: think of the differences in a human being shot thru the big thigh muscles, and being shot in the head....

Backstop however, will be very important. Be cool to recover the pellet and see what happens to it as it travels thru the gel.

This is correct, it cannot duplicate the responce of flesh if it's contained. That would only duplicate flesh encased in a schedule 40 PVC wet suit.

Gary

Well, unfortunately we have a least a couple weeks to ponder the perfect shot(s).

I'm fairly confident that the shots with .32 caliber and below will be contained in the gel. I'm a little concerned that the .62 shot will not show a proper result since the total volume of gel will be fairly small. That said, it really doesn't matter, we all just want to see the video!

We can't wait. We all want you to buy a new camera ... today if possibe.

We are used to being entertained by your films, and now feel we are "entitled" to see regular new ones.

Hey!! Just kidding!!! yuck, yuck. Put down that 2 by 4 .... JERRY!!!

hehehe.

Gary

After seeing what happen to that putty awhile back, your right. You might want to lay out a big canvas, instead of a little cheese cloth. Dory

That's not a 2x4 Gary, that's a Clue by 4! Now anyone who needs a clue, please step to the front of the line...

I'm sorry about the camera Jerry, but understand it is just the first step in me buying a remanufactured one. I'm sure they will send you your new one pronto and I hope your right about the 2-3 week reman time as I can't wait much longer.

Seriously though I hope it comes quickly and is better than new!

When I get back in town I'll fire up my lame camera and shoot a putty animal for grins. Promise to post Monday.

Kent

Back in town! Did you sneak off again?

Hope you're having a good time.

Can't wait to see the putty animal. Visions of Caddy Shak .... ahahah.

Gary

Hmmm...wonder if I can get a Baby Ruth bar around here these days... ; )

Snuck off to Big Sky Montana for a conference and a little skiing. Leaving out on Saturday am if the weather allows. Bozeman airport is closed tonight because of snow and it is dumping as I write. Skiing was great today!

I'll make sure and have a gopher, and his friend the squirrel, to test some of the guns. I be sure to put "a hole in one".

Kent

Cajun Justice Wrote:
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> Snuck off to Big Sky Montana for a conference and
> a little skiing. Leaving out on Saturday am if
> the weather allows. Bozeman airport is closed
> tonight > Kent


Kent,

I PM 'd the contact info. Buy ya beer or a cup'o joe.... got great places for both in the Bo-zone.

Maybe drop by the workshop and I'll show ya whats going on here in montana.

Sometine I feel like the only airgunner in the state.....