I've had an interesting group discussion recently, via the PM system on the forum. I may have overlooked someone, but I tried to assemble the group of posters and responders. I asked for opinion, and appreciated the thoughtful contributions.

General topic was the age old 1). Gun usage. 2). Participation/Feedback.

I thought I'd pick out one concept that figured in quite a few responces: Cost of the guns dictates usage.

Here's where I found the interesting twist: Evidently people "VALUE" the guns far beyond their actual cost. Let's consider.

First ... It's a compliment to the work. I appreciate the fondness for the finished guns, but it does keep them from being enjoyed in the field. Cite for example: quite a few guys bought guns priced out in the $3,500 - $4,500 range. As they are getting them now, they have a market value of approx. twice that. The ledger made it easy to buy, and the quality kept the price up. If you think it's the price paid though, that keeps people from using them ... then consider what you paid for that zero turn mower in the shed. Or that garden tractor your teenage son mows the yard with. Perhaps even that same son's ATV? We put our kids on an $8,000 garden tractor and he mowed over every rock on the property with it. But the $7,000 gun is too expensive to shoot.

Point being ... The guns are treated as if they were $50,000. That tells me that they are "valued" well beyond their actual cost.

I'm not finding "fault" with that. I'm just recognizing (as was pointed out by responders to my opinion survey", that this perceived value issue is one reason there was about universal agreement that the question of usage had no solution. So long as people prize their Barnes guns as they do, then most will not risk using them.

It's one of those head banger realities that make up Barnes. I'd like to see the work used and enjoyed. I proofed them to perform to high standards. But, because I did that and because the owners prize that effort ... the guns rarely get a chance to perform at all. It's a twisted form of success.

Thanks. ;?)

Gary

It would seem that the "curse of the collector" is fated to follow your airguns ad-infinitum.

They're got several features that appeal greatly to the collecting mindset, namely their uniqueness, inherant quality, and rarity. All handmade by a master artisan, no two alike. Definately can't just go out to the store and buy one, and not likely to run into another similar one any time soon. It's a good thing you don't ship them in a shrink-wrapped cardboard box, or they'd collect those too!

Fifty years from now on E-bays successor: Barnes Airgun, never fired, still in original packaging - super-rare!

You are a cruel man Sean. I can see
My guns, trapped behind plastic ... Just like "Stinky Pete", in Toy Story.

Hold it right there! I actually have TWO Barnes original boxes!

The other two rifles I failed to request be shipped, apparently I'm not much of a collector...

Gary,

Think about the replacement cost? In reality if one was stolen or lost in a fire that was fully insured it could never be "replaced" as no two of your guns are the same, they would get money for it yes. Also you would not or could not put the ledger on hold to replace it that would not be right. Being fully insured does not mean they will get a gun from you. So really I think that drives the value up to the collectors and insurance people. Or I could be wrong. What do you think?

I think I should be declared to be a national treasure and properly treated as such. ;?). A nice workshop and gardens with a few helpers. Of course, all the guns must be returned to the museum and guarded 24/7. It's the only proper way forward. Much better then me sitting me with this stupid useless laptop I just got back from the twelve year old geek at Staples!

Twelve year old geek, eh...ain't the computer world great? Still in high school, living at home with mom, and he's already an "expert". That's going to be hard to live up to when he grows up and has to get a real job. I especially love it when you get on a commuter airline and the pilots are so young that they won't have to shave for at least a couple of years. Call me an old curmudgeon, but I like to see at least a couple of grey hairs on the guys up front.

Hi Sean.
Yeah, these guys were the movie versions of yer basic geek. About 80 pounds. Couldn't tell me what was wrong. Couldn't tell me what they did. Couldn't tell me where my email files went. Just wanted me to sign the six page form declaring that everything was perfect and I was happy as a pig.

I have one of Gary's boxes in a corner. Wife occasionally ask when I;m going to get rid of it. It will be there, probably, forever. Or maybe when we do one of those makeovers, then it will go on shelve in garage. Dory

Hey, I know some of those type of geeks, thankfully I was never one of them, and they really do not know very much, thats why they work at Staples. The ones who have a real clue are working part time as UNIX administrators making $60K a year while they finish high school. Since the hard drive is usaully what fails first, I would assume they just re-imaged your laptop, overwriting what ever was there or they replaced the hard drive and did not bother to copy over your data from the old hard drive.

I have a lot of cigar boxes laying around, but no Barnes boxes. That is something I will have to correct in the future.

Losing a Barnes rifle. or pistol, would truly be heartbreaking. But having it locked away in a safe forever is not much better. Its in the same class as a Stradivarius, and people still play those after all these years. Yea, they get dinned or scratched every now and then, but thats what life is, and finely made tools have long life spans.

Keith

Hi Keith
We mere mortals are helpless to know where to go find help with our electronics. There's the mystery phone book guy who will take a peek for a few hundred bucks. So long as it's only unplugged, that will be the total charge. We can become a PIA to the one professional we know. They are nit usually just hoping someone will text with a broken computer. I was willing to buy a new one, if needed ... But you get it and then you can spend your savings on new programs all around. I honestly cannot imagine that such a percentage of the population have working gear. Unless they are just all using the preloaded facebook stuff.
Gary

It's a strange contrast, isn't it? A lathe or a mill made back in the 40s can be perfectly capable of doing work just as good as one made yesterday, perhaps even better, in some cases. But a computer made ten years ago is nothing but junk, suitable for nothing but taking up space and wasting electricity.

I wonder when we'll reach the point where the rate of change in the computer world levels off, and you can buy electronic equipment with an expectation that it'll stay usable for a reasonable amount of time? In the PC world, it seems that even the most expensive stuff has a lifespan about equivalent to that of green bananas. Shopping for a laptop is almost an impulse purchase these days, they're virtually disposable items. When it comes to cellular phones it's even worse, more like buying an ice cream cone. They're a consumable item, built to be used up, with no expectation of any residual value.

I sure hope that when we reach that level-off point, the software has evolved to the point where it's intuitive, useful, and stable. It'd be no good to have a computer usable for twenty years if you've got to re-load the operating system every other month.

Evidently they won't even let you alone to use what you have that is working. I had a great Ap on my phone to edit pics. They kept nagging me to upgrade the FREE Ap for free. I just ignored it because it did what I wanted it to do. So, of course, one day it just stopped working. So, I had to go load it again... For FREE again. And, of course, it's different. My PC nags the life out of me. There's some new update every few minutes. For pity sake, can't we just finish anything without them insisting on changing the hammers and tool belts?

Unless the stuff is all laced with data mining crap, then endlessing upgrading a free upgrade is just a real pain.

So yes, they have it so you cannot open a can of beans without a digital can opener. The "developed world" will simply grind to a stop one day, and everybody will be too helpless to fill a bucket with water.

I can't agree more. The best computer I've found to date is the iPad. The apps are cheap, it's less buggy then anything running windows, and it can do most everything you need it to do. It's not perfect, but it's the closest I've seen to date.

One thing that I do agree with about the Ipad is the "ala-carte" methodology of buying apps. Other than the basic operating system, you only pay for the software you want.

Windows software is packaged like cable TV; they peddle their junkier items by combining them into package deals with the stuff most people actually want. You might want about five or six decent channels, but those "just happen " to be lumped in with a couple of hundred garbage channels. You can't get one without the other, and they charge you the big bucks for the whole batch.

Come to think of it the customer service is about the same for both of 'em too...makes you wonder....

I live in a small town. Odds and ends of noises on the street at night. I like some white noise to blurt the environment I can't control. The other night, I had an idea ... Hey! I went to the Ap store and typed in "white noise". Immediately there was a FREE Ap. I loaded it. Love it. Just right. Slept like a baby

Last night, I punch it on ... I get a banner that says "you have used White Noise Lite for four days now. Would you like to upgrade!? Do you want more information? NO!!!!!
I suspect it will stop working soon. This model of business is very insulting and counterproductive to customer relations.

They are morons. Just charge .99 cents and be done with it. If you bug people to upgrade, then its not free.

Common enough that there is actually a name for it, appropriately enough it's called "nagware".

With a name like that, who could resist?

Wow, worth to boxes to nagware...

All I can say is I am going to shoot mine. Buy the best you can afford, then shoot it. I am betting Gary approves (;-))

Hope you do Steve. That will be great. I'll go ahead and put thebarrel on yours then.

its a strange old world , sometimes i think the actual worth is a lot more than the value , in monetary terms , i think a lot of the way that things are treat is to do with the respect that people have for their manafacture , talke the lap top , as the example , i doubt if its touched by more than three people till its home and out of the box , total tactile time prob a few mins max. so it has no heart or soul , no sweat and tears went into it , its just plastic , and as such disposable , you need a spare , it will arrive and be exactly the same as the piece that was taken off , and the other millions of parts like it .
hand made precission anything just isnt like that.