So
I gotten a couple of books on blacksmithing and most the tools I need to make a knife . I really enjoy watching some of the shows on TV . There's a pretty new one called Iron & Fire . The smith on the show is Daniel Casey and is very talented for a youg guy . He makes primative flint lock guns and fixed blades and such . Anyways he made a hog spear and fashioned a handle for a hunt . Now from all I've read to a novice to tell when the metal is ready for quench the molecules line up and it becomes non magnetic .
So when a magnet doesn't stick to steel you quench it in warmed oil . Sooooo when Daniel quenched his spear point it warped to the north . His claim was that his oil trough was pointing in the wrong direction . I think what he really meant was his blade should have pointed north so when the magnetism returned it could NOT pull to the north .

Gary
Can you tell me what direction your quench trough is facing? Or am I'm getting suckered by a master blade smith humor ?

1 , fetch me a bucket of steam ?
2, can you find the metal stretcher ?
3, muffler bearings
4, headlight fluid is low

Thanks
Kurt

Oh no Kurt ..,.., this is serious stuff ....

Now, IF the hammer it was forged with, had a hickory handle .... then he'd need to point the trough 15 degrees North East .... no wait .... that's for Ash! Hickory is 17 degrees South East. The reasons are long and complex Kurt. Basically...ahhhh ....,,, ahhHhhh..BuL$4!....Tttt. Ahhh .... Excuse me.....,,,

But hey ..... Whatttdu-I-noh.....

Hey, just do it or you'll loose your decoder ring.

We will talk after bit. Working.

Gary

If the magnetic field of the earth was strong enough to warp a steel spearpoint, it'd be strong enough to pull the iron molecules right out of our blood hemoglobin. The guy was shining you on for sure.

Kurt,

Where did ya go?

Don't tell me you are "Rotating your Truck Seats!"



Although, that is s good idea every 20k miles.

What are ya gonna forge when you get set up? Have you ever worked a soft coal fire pot before?

Gary

Sean
From what I see if you don't hold the blade in a vertical position it will bend just from the weight and being near molten . If you slosh it around to much in the oil it will warp . So remember it's turning from non magnetic back to magnetic and it's very fluid at the precise time AND given what WE know about making a compass with a leaf and a needle in water , it kinda makes me think twice . I don't think it would take much to warp. It was an extremely thin spear with a thicker spline down the center . Now when he annealed it he used a sand filled bucket poking the spear head straight down in sand . . I have in the past welded cast and the preheat and post heat is super important. The last exhaust manifold I welded took about 10 min to weld & 9 hours to cool down with out cracking .
Also some of the knife makers only stick in the edge of the blade for heat treating kinda like Gary and his knifes .
Daniel Casey quenches the whole knife so I'm still not convinced. I might hafta do a research study . In my mind it could happen ( maybe ) hmmmmm

Thanks
Kurt

Hey I'm here .
No Gary never used soft coal . I was planing on a rosebud torch in a small insulated kiln / oven ( custom ). Trying to come up with some insulation for lining . Then for doors in front just a couple fire brick . I thought it would be simple to whip up a couple of hardy tools and bang out fixed blade cleaver for the kitchen . Also I have a store bought Alaskan native ulu and I use it . I know it's a WOMANS knife Sean but I want to make one of those too.

Thanks
Kurt



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2016 05:08PM by kurt wag.

Hey Kurt,

Ulus are one of the more useful kitchen tools regardless of who you are, they make excellent pizza cutters amongst numerous other uses. I wish I had one with decent ergonomics instead of the el-cheapo model I've got now. When you look at the old photos of Upik and Inuit using ulus, you never see them made like the ones they sell these days. Back then they had a couple of basic patterns that are far more comfortable to use than the stamped-out Chinese made copies they sell to tourists. Ironically, none of the stores here sell actual working-type ulus, just the tourist specials.

What I'd really like is one with good ergonomics (like space for fat fingers) in a decent stainless that will hold an edge...that is dishwasher safe.

Yes Gary, I know you should never put a good knife in the dishwasher, but I'd be willing to bet that every bladesmith out there has at least a few utility / kitchen knives that get stuck in the dishwasher right along with all the rest of the flatware. I'm not going to be fleshing out caribou hides after all, it just needs to have a good enough edge to do basic chopping and pizza cutting and similar kitchen tasks.

Hi Kurt,

I'll help you.

First tip: don't do anything you mentioned above. . Sorry. We will get you hooked up.

Be back. Was mowing. Got garden tractor stuck. Had to use other tractor. Find chains. Bolt to thread chain. Bolts in one shop - nuts for same in another shop .... . Get Kelly to drive one tractor. Misquitos were out ..., BIG TUSKERS!!!! Too!!!!

Shower. Dinner waiting. Be back to rescue you.

Gary

Guys, I'll be back. Good thread. Fun.

Sorry, got a killed headache/stiff neck. What a PAIN I am! You agree??? Ha

Gary

Kurt,

LOTS of great stuff on knife making on YouTube. I would be an expert myself, but I'm spending most of my time learning to be a doctor on YouTube.

Lon

Lon
I've watched a lot of knife making videos . I can whip one out in under 1/2 hour if I believe it all . It's all made to look SO easy but I have worked steel a lot more than most so I do understand it . I have made a file knife or 2 but it's cheating in my mind . I might as well buy a blade and put a deer antler on it .

The whole coal thing seems like it would take a lot of space up and more money to put together for a handful of trinkets I think I will make . I'm not looking for artistic but mainly quality and function . It would be nice for my family to have a homemade hand hammered tool or two !

Good luck with the doctoring . I'll make you a scalpel when you get ready fer surgery !

Thanks
Kurt

Ah .... I love it when you guys talk to one another. It's like listening to stories between your children or grandkids.... Ahhh .... makes an old man proud .... One's becoming a Doctor - One's becoming a renowned Bladesmith. Both from utube U., or "uU" as we call it in the Family ...,

I started writing up a thesis on how to make a gas forge and it got absurd. Of course, just do the utube version. But you don't need a door. You should let an opening to work thru. It won't matter for heat retention. You need easy access. Don't fiddle with tongs. Weld a bar of steel to your billet. Tongs are a fiddly mess.

Have your torch enter from the side of a cyclinder shaped chamber. Have it enter at the from the side, just below the top of the diameter. That way the flame will swirl around the inside, instead of concentrating against a spot of the far wall.

You want "Refractory Cement" or the "Blanket" version of same. Something that can stand 2,500-3,000 degrees F.

You are gonna forge at about 1,500-1,750 degrees F. An Orange heat just starting to glow yellowish within.

You quench carbon tool steel at about 1,750 F. It will have become non-magnetic at that point, yes. But, quench it at the point where the steel appears yellow/orange - where it looks like it has a yellow light "inside" the piece. Don't overheat the edge. You NEVER want to see any sparking. If so, the piece is ruined. The crystals will have become huge and the steel brittle as a Crouton.

BTW - I always quench the entire blade. I control the heat so that the parts of the blade I wish at certain hardness, achieve the required heat. NEVER quench in water. It shocks the steel too much. Use any light weight oil. If you want your shop to smell good, use Corn Oil! Ancient Bladesmith's Wisdom: "It is better to have Shop smell like baking cookies, then burnt Automatic Transmission." glbarnes MS - 950AD

Oh, get a length of pipe and weld a foot square plate centered on one end. Weld it water tight. Fill with light weight oil. Quench blade vertical, point down. One quick motion. Oil will probably flame so don't hold above it. Here's where you can use tongs, from the side. Smother to extinguish flames BUT that will start a horrible smoke that will fill the shop. Better to just let it flame a bit. Let blade in oil for about one minute. Remove and then tightly cap your oil sleeve. Smoke will thus be prevented.

More later.
Gary

Gary
That's a lot of good information. Thankyou I was hoping to get some insulation lighter weight for portability. My plan also included a piece of 10" pipe about 2-0" long minus the insulation . I know that having the right tools is a very small part of the equation but I gotta start somewhere . If I have to use cement I was going to put a piece of 8" pipe inside and fill the void .

Thanks
Kurt

Hi Kurt,

If you are willing to make a gas forge, I'll bet there are plans online.

Mine was made by a Fellow Master Smith, Alfred Pendray. He had experience with them. I asked him to build me one eons ago.

Mine has the cement refractory exposed in the firebox and in the flat funnel leading the fire into the chamber. Door with large hole front and rear. You could therefore; heat the center section of a 20 foot bar if you like.

I've actually seen guys make Coffee Can forges online. So; it does not have to be huge. Especially to start and for hunting knives. What are you gonna grind with?

Gary

Gary
I have a couple of baldor grinders with stone wheels but was going to set one up with buffer wheel and other one with maybe a 2 wheel 2" x72 belt system . I have a foley belsaw 1" x42" but it's pretty lame .
I also have the brown and sharp surface grinder like yours and a tilty magnetic vice for real precision .
I'm really good with a hand grinding so I figured I go with belt sander since that seems like the most common for knife guys!

Thanks
Kurt

Hi Kurt,

I have made all my grinders for 2 by 72". Good choice.

Tip: most grinders run waaaaaay faster then needed. Do you have speed control on either of your stone grinders?

Also, don't be afraid to make a laminated plywood wheel. I sealed my edge grain with Bondo. You can turn the wheel right in place on the grinder if you cut it pretty close to start. Seal it. You can then coat the wheel or wheels, with different things for different uses. The corrugated rubber like a floor mat or hall runner is real good. Contact cement it on st 45 degrees. Skateboard wheels for idlers or tracking.

Might want to wet your whistle with a hand grinder with rubber disc and abrasive paper discs. Does a nice job.

Gary

Funny thing here Gary
About a month ago I got my old skateboard out from the 1970's and spied 4 great rubber neo wheels .

No speed adjustment on the grinders but 1750 rings a bell . I actually have some scotch pad discs for my 6" angle grinder and sanding discs . I'm sure my the end of summer I'll have a good proto type .
Thanks

Thanks
Kurt

Hi Kurt,

Those look killer.

The Trucks are useful too. You can weld a tab to one axle stub. Push/Pull for tracking.

I'll help you.

Gary

My sons middle school teacher does some black smithing and has started on knife making, he made a propane forge out of a 12" diameter section of iron pipe, cast a refractory liner inside. The cavity isn't quite concentric or symmetrical, but it hasn't burned through and he's been using it for about ten years now, the whole thing is on a welded angle-iron stand and industrial locking castors so he can roll it out of the garage to work under an overhanging porch. He's got it set up with two tangential burners, each with their own separate valve and air shutter, so he can regulate the heat the way he likes it. The way it's set up he can just stack some firebrick at one or both ends if he wants to, or leave both ends open and heat parts from both sides. He's done a couple of 'forge-ins" with the kids and some of them really get into it, making small projects that they can take home. It heats kind of slow for bigger parts compared to the bottom-blown coal forges I've seen at blacksmithing demonstrations, but it doesn't take up a lot of space and it does get the job done. I could take a photo or see which plans he used if you'd like.

He also uses a pipe section full of oil to quench, and as a word of advice make sure your bottom weld is perfectly water-tight before you fill it up with oil for the first time. His had a couple of pinholes that he didn't find until he'd had it in use for a while, and once the steel is oil-soaked it gets harder to get a good weld on it.

You've been doing steel work long enough that yours will probably be a functional work of art when you're done, but no pressure or anything.

Yeah, that's a nice big forge Sean.

Mine uses a big computer rack fan - (so I was told) rotor type. Kind that you can shut down the flow with s ball valve and it will just free wheel. So, there is a big about 2" ball valve for air, and a gas screw valve for Propane. Estimated about Half a Million BTUs. Yeah - 12-14" pipe

I burned up a couple of coal forges I built. Best one was a big truck rim for the fire pot. I could work/weld a billet about twice the size of a pack of cigs. With my 115 pound hammer. That's using a 5 hp 220v electric motor driving a 100 pound flywheel for primary power.

Today, you have cheap electric leaf blowers and cheap propane burners. They have done the work for ya. Just dry stack a chamber of fire brick - maybe two bricks thick - cover that in 18" of sand all around. Chimney flue section in and out! Done.

Gary

This guy is my fav..............................second favorite knife maker.

But, for what he charges for a sword, you can get a whole gun from Gary.

[www.youtube.com]

Lon



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2016 06:05AM by Bigbore.

Hey Lon ...

You call'n me ..... CHEAP???

Hey Lon
I've watched his videos and he's good . The guy I'm enjoying ( besides present company) is a guy called. ( Trollsky )
He's has very good videos and explains the process as he's building his fixed blade primative style knifes . They are short and simple with almost the easiest of tools around .
He is from Poland and does it for fun but also sells . On all his knifes he etches a chile pepper on the blade for his logo with a battery charger a nail and vinigar . A little easier than Garys B with a sword .
I think the reason I like his process is I can do it . I know I couldn't do what Gary does because I DONT have an artistic bone in my body .

Have you seen any of the mosaic pins anywhere yet ? Those are pretty cool too and Im not against buying some things already made to gussy up the knife alittle .

Thanks
Kurt

Hi Kurt,

I'm just gonna ignore that part about you being willing to BUY parts. Where is the emoji with his hand over his eyes .... Haha

I was looking for Canvas Phenolic the other day. Came across this place. Good Grief ... They have beyond everything. All the stuff I "make". Down to most of the machined parts. They probably have my carved B with a dagger thru it. Here ya go: [www.usaknifemaker.com]

Utube knife makers. Buying parts. I've lived to SEE the END of mankind ...

Gary
Those parts are for knife assemblers . I thought with some SS brake line , filler rod for brazing or TIG welding ,I could make some fancy pins . Also on wire welders there are copper tips the wire come thru . They would make a great solid pin . I pick them up off the floor all the time at work .

Thanks
Kurt

Kurt,

I've seen plenty of Trollsky's videos and I like them too. Gosh, after watching those, and I'm sure plenty of others I'm surprised you don't have a more favorable opinion about the quality of the content available online. From backyard guys to Gary and Walter.

I don't recall seeing any mosaic pins, but the things that catch my attention during a video may not be things most are focused on.

Lon

Hey Lon/Kurt,

That link I put has pages of mosiac pins. [www.usaknifemaker.com]

Use the 409 Dremel abrasive cut-off discs to cut the material without chewing it up. Have fun.

BTW - did anybody answer my inquiry as to if there's a market for a BARNES Hunter? I've wondered about a ground blade .... ah heck .... I'll just make one ....

These pins are pretty cool and only 1 on a primative knife wouldn't fancy it up too much

Thanks
Kurt

That usa knifemaker.com has some pretty neat stuff... Vary helpful for any one makeing knives... Some good pricing also, I could not find the Barnes engraved sward and shield tho! Prolly one of those secret behind the counter items you have to ask for.... Kurt I'm sure your set up will turn out nice with your metalworking experience! I was also watching that new show with Daniel Casey, some nice work he does. Good luck with the knives.

Matt

Sean
Thanks for the offer of photos but won't be necessary . I pretty much see it in my mind but I was going to close off the back of it but as you and Gary said you could do a 20'-0" piece of steel. I will have a front and back access window for feeding the beast . I really like Garys door with I think a dragon face with glowing eye holes .My 48" lathe has a hole drilled down the center of the head stock also for pass thru barrels and such . I am going to use a piece of schedule pipe with some insulation of some kind . And like Gary said to offset the chimney flame to produce the swirl . I actually made a sweet rocket stove that was offset to create a cyclonic vortec . But I gave it to a buddy for his deer blind .
It great that the teachers are promoting in it your school still . Where I live the kids still get opening deer season off school too!

Thanks
Kurt