Jerry,

I'm getting ready to cast slugs, of my own here in few weeks. My mechanic just gave me 3 buckets of lead weights. I've read a few other forums about casting with lead wheel weights. Do you have any extra , pointers/opinions. Equipment pointers. I'll have a Barnes mold.

By now, your surely the master of the mold/die. Dory

Well ... sorry ... first tip would have been to ask before you got buckets full of lead weights. They are much too hard - due to the lead alloy. Everybody wants to cast them 'cause everybody has buckets full of them to get rid of. What you want is "soft lead" ... such as roofing lead.

Jerry buys new lead and has it shipped to him. I buy salvage roofing lead sheet from a salvage yard.

There's a tremendous difference in soft and hard lead. Hard lead won't compress - and mold to the bore. Expecially ... (as I have inside information) ... ... I know your 87 smooth bore will want soft lead. And, your 87 sizing die won't compress hard lead.

Gary

Well, I got it for free.

And I know a guy that cast his own pellets for shooting clays. I can probably, make a swap for some free pellets.

Is there a way to make it soft?

I'll go down to my favorite junk yard and see what they got. How do you know for sure your getting soft lead?Dory

If you find roofing lead in sheets you can be sure it is soft as it has to be pliable. If you get ingots you can see if you can sctch it with a fingernail or just drop it on a hard surface from a couple feet and see if it dents. Very scientific eh? You could get a brinel hardness tester but those are pricey.

I don't know how to separate the zinc and antimony from the lead in wheel weights.

As far as equipment goes: we use the same cheap lead pot Gary does, the Lee bottom pour unit that runs about $65-70. It is not high tech or particularly rugged but it gets the job done. Had I known we would cast as many slugs as we have, I would probably bought a better pot but so it goes. The Lee pot should be fine unless you go into mass production!

Get a thermometer so you can identify the best temperature for the various molds. Also, the Lee pot does not hold a particular temperature very well and knowing the temp allows you to adjust during the session.

You'll need a wood handled spoon to mix the lead and tin and you will want a broader spoon to scoop the dross off the top of the lead. Get some borax for fluxing and cleaning the mix, one box will last forever.

Gary suggests about an inch of tin (from the sticks Midway sells) for a full pot of lead. That advice has worked well for us.

For most molds a starting temp of about 720 degrees works well. For your .87 mold you will find that lower temps might be better as the mold will hold a lot of heat. The massive slugs just have so much energy that it is fairly easy to get the mold too hot. Just take a short break and start again... Most molds need a little pre-heat to get to good slugs sooner. Use a propane torch to pre-heat or just prop the mold over the pot as it comes up to temp. Don't over do the pre-heat, you don't want a glowing mold and you don't want to warp it by spot heating. If you get frosty slugs, your mold is too hot or your lead is too hot. The slugs are probably fine but the finish will be frosty and I've found that getting stuff too hot can lead to brittle slugs or more slugs that have air bubble problems. In any case, frosty means something needs to be cooled.

Wrinkles in the slugs mean you are not up to the best mold temperature or you need more tin. Try casting more slugs to get the mold up to temp before you add tin. Also, check the lead temp and add 30 degrees or so if you followed the suggestion for tin content.

When you get to where you are getting good slugs with few rejects, note all the settings! They will be different for your smaller and huge mold!

All good advice Jerry.

Yes - careful on the mold preheat. In fact ... until you are more experienced ... just cast about 8 lousy slugs (to warm the mold) ... and toss them back into the pot. (Well ... lay them back ... don't splash the lead on yourself). It's too easy to fry the mold. Most people would hear "pre-heat" with a torch and see a 4th of July Sparkler in their mind's eye. )

Right ... you can easily "finger nail" soft lead. Drag the thumb nail sideways (knife edge fashion) and see it you can cut it. If it's hard lead ... you will not engrave it with the finger nail.

I made a lead pot scraper that I stir and clean with. It's about 3/16" thick steel by about 1" wide. Bent 90 degrees so there's a leg of the steel that goes to the bottom of the pot and is long enough to extend about an inch above the pot edge. Round the bottom corners some to match the rounded pot bottom. On the horizontal extension leg of the steel scraper ... let it extend about 6-8" from the pot, and finish it off with a wooden handle that doesn't have any steel tang exposed (which would burn you). Now, you have a scraper that you can use in a horizontal plane ... with a vertical leg scraping the bottom and sides of the pot. Burnt lead and impurities build up there (and would actually close up and fill in the pot if left .. also - the pot won't heat with that crap on there). As you stir ... all the crap will rise to the top of the lead. You don't have to ever worry about the lead being "dirty". Impurities will char and float off, and you spoon it off the top into a coffee can. (I prefer Maxwell house cans .... )

Touch the mold alignment pins with a wax candle occasionally as you cast - and touch the bottom of the top sprue plate with the candle occasionally. It will lubricate the mold so you don't wear these areas. Don't get the wax into the cavity itself if you can help it. (I do somewhat ... but it drives Jerry nuts). It will discolor the mold interior ... but I haven't personally seen any problem with just a color change - of course you can't have any "build up" in the cavity or on the block faces (or the molds won't be closing tight or the slug cavity won't be round).

Casting sounds like a real pain. There's a ton of things to get used to. However; it ends up being like riding a bike. You have to have the "stuff" set up though ... you have to get the materials ... and you have to do it right. Most people want to contract it. Jerry and his Sons do an excellent job, if you don't care to learn a new craft.

Dory: your action is all assembled and ready to test fire. However; it was late. The chronograph is in the truck. The gun will be very LOUD!!!! And ..., I have my yearly crappy chest/head cold plague thingie. Starting to cough now. Any moving air makes my chest and throat scratchy. So; I'll see ya'll on the other side. Sometimes it's not bad. See - you can hardly tell in my typing, can you? Time for Vicks ... cough syrup ... Hot tea ... and a stuffed toy .. Fine! .... NO stuffed toy ...

Gary



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2009 02:06AM by barnespneumatic.

PS ... regarding roofing lead. It will have oxidation on it. Maybe some paint ... maybe some adhesives. Don't worry about getting it all off of there first. Just provide a very strong suction air flow to move the smoke away from you. And, try to provide some clean air flow over your shoulder (that's to give you a stiff neck). ;?)

The crap will easily burn off - and the lead in the pot will be brilliant silver and clean. A "pinch" of borax will "clump" the impurities and make them easy to remove with a stainless steel mixing spoon.

I got a cheap stove exhaust hood at Lowes to put over my lead pot. Put a sheet metal wall around three sides of the pot. leave about 10" all around the pot. Sit the exhaust hood atop across sticks or rods. Tuck in fiberglass insulation to seal the cracks. Then, pipe off the top of the fan hood and outside (in such as way that it doesn't blow back in or enter some other house window). Run the fan on high all the while the pot is on, and even while it cools (that's my pattern anyway). The fan will also have an internal light. Mine was only about $25 when I bought it. Of course - look for the scratch and dent ...

I wanted to put the rest of this info. out there tonight so someone didn't go poison themselves ...

OK ... going upstairs. If I'm not too frisky for the next couple of days - don't worry.

Gary

Good post guys, as I'd like to cast my own slugs one day. I learned a lot about molding. Thanks!

Well, If your that close and need some help I can be there late tomorrow afternoon. :] First fire.

You sure you just don't have allergy's. Same time of year same symptoms. I know, everybody is a doctor. With all this rain the mold levels have got to be real high. I think it's rained a foot in the last week. It's pouring right now.

I plan on doing all my casting outside. I don't have enough brain cells as it is. Looks like Midway has the best deals on casting gear.

If, I can find a local soft lead supply, will have to get a .62 mold. Dory

Gary wrote:

"Right ... you can easily "finger nail" soft lead. Drag the thumb nail sideways (knife edge fashion) and see it you can cut it. If it's hard lead ... you will not engrave it with the finger nail."


Well, I was using exactly that same method to identify appropriate lead, when I bought some more lead for my casting (I first got good soft lead from a good friend who have casted muzzle loader bullets for years). It was good to hear/see that, beacuse I have thought it many times did I buy appropriate lead after all...

I think the lead I have now is enough soft, because it is soft enough to engrave with finger nail, and on the other hand, it makes fairly good slugs


To that separating thing: separating antimony and zink from lead... Could these other, harder metals be separated out of lead with plain lead pot and thermometer...???

I mean, could it be done by warming the pot exactly to the melting point of lead (327.46?°C, 621.43?°F), no further... and then collecting away all the stuff (from melted lead) which haven't melted...? That's because zink melts in 419.53 °C,?787.15 °F, and antimony 630.63 °C,?1167.13 °F... so they haven't melted when lead has...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2009 07:20PM by sepeteus.

Is the borax, the same stuff I already got in the laundry, 20 mule team?

From what I've read the tin is used so that the molds fill in 100%. With the wide shoulders on the .87 slug, will I really need that? Just trying to keep it simple.

I don't have a chrony yet. So, I don't know about barrel speed, but do you lube your slugs for the smooth bores. I can't tell any difference, lube or unlubed, when just loading them. Dory

Same stuff. Try it without tin, the worst that happens is you recycle. I lube the slugs.

Sepetus:

Don't think you'll have much luck with trying to seperate the lead from the antimony and such. Once a metal has alloyed it won't easily seperate just by heating, it usually has to be pried apart by chemical means. It's not like distillation of liquids, with metals the different elements become incorporated into the crystal structure of the resulting alloy (which then has a different melting temp). There are exceptions to every rule (mercury, for one) but it's usually more complicated than just having a good thermometer.