This topic is for discussions, speculations and entertainment, since no one has taken the BIG dangerous stuffs with the bigbores yet.

Dangerous game such as black bears and wild Russian boar have already been taking down with the bigbores, I'm talking about the bigger stuffs, such as the Alaskan Brown bear, Polar bear in North America, and Lion, leopard in Africa. I know, the day of it becoming legal to hunt them with the bigbore is slim and a far distance in the future, but we can still discuss it for fun.

Now the guns, any of Gary's .87 bore with 750 to 840 fpe is enough to take down all the light skinned games, for the big bears, you'd need a heavy hard cast bullet to penetrate and destroy the vitals. With the .87 slug, you wouldn't really neeed expansion since the .87 hole is bigger than a kitchen sink faucet hole! A double barrels would be a good idea for this kind of hunting incase of a charged.


Now, for the terminal performances, many of you already know, archery has taken down all the dangerous games including hippos and elephant, with the 120 fpe bows, and Jim Shockey, the famous Black Powder hunter has taken down all the dangerous games including the African big 5 with his Knight .50 1600 fpe muzzle loading gun. With the 700 to 850 fpe bigbores, we are closer to black powder guns, granted, with only half the energy of them, still, the bigbores shoot the projectile twice bigger and 3 times heavier for a MASSIVE, train wrecking shock to the animals. And with the .87 hole it will bleed like a kitchen sink faucet. Nothing could live very long!

In conclusion, I think with the right slug, the right caliber, the right gun, enough fpe, and with the PH backing you up, it could be done! One day someone would prove it to us, just like they did with the African games, the black bears, and the bisons......I think it's the ultimate fantasy for most of us, to be able to take down the biggest dangerous game with the bb gun he..he...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2009 09:37PM by peter-n.

I think your right. There is nothing out there that the Grizzly or Dragon can't kill. Now, I'm sure as heck not going to try my luck with lion or brown bear or cape buffalo but someone who is an actual big game hunter with years of experience could. That person would know his gun extremely well because he practiced at a number of ranges from the furthest he would take a shot to as close as he thought he might get. He would know his game very well and not be the least hesitant about where to place the shot from any given angle the target might present. And that person would have a back-up plan, whether that was a guide with another airgun to pass over or a powder burner or whatever but it would be a good plan based on experience.

I think the internet breeds some wild ideas about armored animals and what real hunters actually do. Sometimes it seems that if you have a Weatherby .460 Magnum you can just stroll into the field and kill anything easy as tying your shoe but if you only have a H&H .375 Magnum well then you have to aim! Every time I see a thread about this it seems to have the required caliber and danger continually rising until the only safe or reasonable way to hunt is with a Bradley fighting vehicle using the Bushmaster cannon!

That's not to say that one should go lion hunting with a .32 airgun with no protection or back-up but it's just a big cat with a heart within the penetration distance of an airgun! Remember the shots on the ballistic gell? I got 18" of penetration using a wad-cutter style slug on LOW power! That was about a 100 FPE shot. Remember the .45 ball that cruised on through about 36" and kept going? None of those shots came remotely close to the power of the Grizzly. None of them went through a leather type skin or busted a bone either but if you'll recall Gary's shot on the buffalo, it did bust a near rib pass through the body, bust a far rib and stopped just under the skin on the off side.

Seems to me that the current crop of airguns have the power and accuracy to kill just about anything at a reasonable range. What they don't have is a guy like Shockey with the means, desire, and skills to use them to hunt with.

I totally agree with you 100%! And the .62 Grizzly with 750 fpe would certainly do the job. With the right slug, and enough fpe for complete penetration of the vitals, and provided that the caliber is big enough to produce a big full caliber wound, you wouldn't need 5000 fpe to kill a tough game like conventional wisdom thinking. FPE is important but it's not the only thing for terminal effect. I've read an article by Rick Jamison, and John Wooter, the famous gun writters, even they admitted that, with this class of projectiles, momentum is a better indicator and has as much a role in terminal performances as fpe do. Since the equation for fpe requires velocity squared, for example, a two fold in velocity would result in 4 time the fpe, a 4 fold in velocity would result in 16 times the fpe, they rely heavily on velocity. As for mass energy you only need to calculate velocity times weight to produce mass energy. Both have sound physic in term of terminal performances. They had actually went out and tested the affects of big slugs on elks compared to smaller but much higher fpe centerfired cartridges. they have found that the 1600 fpe .50 muzzle loader would put down the elks on the spots and with much more authority, and quicker kills than the smaller but much higher fpe centerfired cartridges. They have concluded that these class of projectiles are a different class by themselves and don't adhere to the conventional wisdom of fpe for clean kills on biggames.

And that's why in bigbores, since we only have a limited power, I think increasing in bore size makes sense if you want to go after really large games, it would gives you more power and it would also increase in killing power due to mass.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2009 11:54PM by peter-n.

About reloading the single shot bigbore, I think with lots of practice, and by holding a second slug in the hand, one would be able to reload a second shot in about 1 second or 2 is the max, incase of a charged by bear or wild boar. If you don't have a double barrels gun, this is a good option, and ofcourse with the PH or a Guide backing you up. A bear or wild boar can cover about 35 ft per second in a charged, by keeping the shot distance at least 75 yards, you'd still have a chance at the second shot. What do you think? It would beat an empty gun he..he..

Peter,
I don't think it is worthwile to go through hypothetical scenarios that involve how fast a bear can charge vs. how fast one can reload. There's just no end to that path other than the conclusion that you're starting out with little confidence in your hunting gun and that maybe the whole thing would be just a stunt if attempted.

I'd need to add in the factor of ... "is there anyone with me, who has those heart zapping paddles?" Also ... "How many changes of clothing did my assistant pack?" Then there's ... would I make a good fireplace rug, for the bear's den.

There will always be those who get a kick from pushing their luck to the edge of reason ... I guess it makes good TV. But; it's not something I could ever claim to encourage. When you start with someone with "my luck" ... I'd consider hummingbirds to be dangerous game.

It's fun to consider things though. Thanks for your post Peter. You might be the one to pull off the Safari. Can't wait to read about it from the comfort of my leather chair!

Gary



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2009 07:26PM by barnespneumatic.

Well.....I guess, there are 2 types of hunters, one is the conservative, the other is the risk taker type; I'm the risk taker type of hunter, I belong to the group of hunter that wouldn't mind taking down the large dangerous game with relatively primitive archery weapon, black powder, or powerful bigbores, however with backup ofcourse he..he....

Considering that at least one tribe had killing a Lion as a rite of passage and the weapon was a spear, a risk taker ought to be able to use an airgun with a spear for back-up! I mean, really...if kids becoming men can do it, why not a hunter?

Yeah . . . with the key words in the above story being "had" and "was" . . .

-- Jim

You can do it Jim!

Peter, definitely a good idea to have backup, though some of Gary's creations may make the need for that doubtful..
I think Jerry has some airforce contacts, so maybe get the first shot away and then call in an airstrike if needed?
Cheers
Neil

Jim, I don't know what do you mean by "had" and "was" , anything get hit by a .87 bore would be "finito" he...he...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2009 08:53AM by peter-n.

Thanks guys for the inputs! When I started this thread, I knew it would be met with different opinions, but that's what the forum is for, to discuss about our beloved guns and it's effectiveness. This is probably the only thread ever about the "taboo" subject of super powerful bigbore against large dangerous games in any airgun forums ever. The opinions I got from you is that Gary's .87 bigbores are probably powerful enough to take the large dangerous games down, but risky and dangerous. I'm ok with that, and it's been fun he.he.. Thanks again!!