How do you like the first couple of weeks of Rendezvous?

Anything missing?

We're steadily adding members. We appreciate everyone who's enjoying it here. We'd like all of you to comment when you see something that interests you. Just toss in a thumb's up if you can't think of any more to say. It let's us know we're on the right track.

I really like the way the data base hosts it's own pics. Adding them is a breeze. If anybody has questions about the mechanics of the forum, ask here, and we'll provide some brief step by steps (on the forum ... not the guns ...

I've enjoyed it. Keep it coming.

Gary

Hi, Gary...

Everything looks good, to me. As for interests? Well, last night I watched a video interview with the president of Henry Repeating Arms, Anthony Imperato. At one point, he picked up a bar of barrel steel, and explained how it came from Ohio (amongst other things)... immediately, I thought "Toledo Steel". So... that got me to thinking about what I've read on your site. All the different materials you work with: Tool steel, aluminum-bronze, etc. Being the creative, technical type, I have this facination for material specifications and how they affect the end product being produced. The "end quality." Perhaps a sticky on the subject of material specs that go into a Barnes Airgun? The more we learn, the more we understand, the more we understand, the more we appreciate. Just thought it would be an interesting point to examine, from the craftsman point of view.

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Thanks for the comment,

A list of materials would be quite long. Here's a few of the steels I use:

Cold rolled Steel
1010 Carbon Steel
1018 Carbon Steel
1060 Carbon Steel
308 Mild Stainless Steel
316 Mild Stainless Steel
Chrome Moly Steel (4130)
Spring Wire High Carbon Steel
O-1 Tool Steel
W-1 Tool Steel
W-2 Tool Steel
A-2 Stainless Steel
60 Series Mig Wire Steel
70 Series Mig Wire Steel
L6 Steel

Those are just the steels that pop into mind ... I'm sure I've forgotten a few. Then, there's far more of everything else.

Gary

Gary,

Looks like you have quite a list... frankly, I wasn't thinking it would be so long! Thanks for the list, now I can do a little digging of my own, when I have the time. I imagine each and every one of these has a specific use? And am I right in my assuption that your listing of "Spring Wire High Carbon Steel" means you make your own springs, as well as everything else? I'll also need to explore that aluminum bronze alloy you've mentioned. Again, Thanks for the list....

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Roose,

I wrap most of my coil springs - yes. Make all leaf springs and other special designs for specific needs.

Gary

Just went to look ....

Lots of views. 4 comments from satisfied readers (those who took a moment to comment).

Usually posts asking for an opinion, bring more responce. I thought I'd take another shot at it. I'd personally like to see more posts which readers initiate. I'd like to hear more about your activities with your airguns.

Thanks for reading. I hope it's both entertaining and informative. Take a moment to leave a comment on any thread that interests you. You're already here. Might as well leave footprints!

Gary

barnespneumatic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just went to look ....
>
> Lots of views. 4 comments from satisfied readers
> (those who took a moment to comment).
>
> Usually posts asking for an opinion, bring more
> responce. I thought I'd take another shot at it.
> I'd personally like to see more posts which
> readers initiate. I'd like to hear more about
> your activities with your airguns.
>
> Thanks for reading. I hope it's both entertaining
> and informative. Take a moment to leave a comment
> on any thread that interests you. You're already
> here. Might as well leave footprints!
>
> Gary


Yeah ,sorry from my end.
All good though the tools for users is a bit basic. ie-have to return to top of page to go back to main pages, when you post it kicks you back to main page and most importantly, no matter how hard I wish the images of those Barnes guns into my office, it just don't happen???!!!!! Please sort this last niggle out post haste

But seriously, those two niggles is about all of the negative things I can think of.
Content is the most important, and thats top notch.
As to the lack of users initiating topics, it could be we all feeling a little cowed by your knowledge and skill mate.
But then I am a big shy girlie type...

Gonna share something you reminded me of. The talent comes with a bit of a curse that I've always lived with. "Oh ... poor Gary!!!" I can hear it now.

However; countless times ... I've experienced something like this: Meet some new people. As you get to know them, it comes up that .. ah ... Gary built that China Cabinet ... REALLY!? Later ... Ah ... Gary built the fireplace too, actually. Then later, well ... Gary painted that painting ... really?? Then, .... thanks, it's sterling silver ... ah ... Gary made this locket for me. Did he now ... About then, the lady reaches over - punches the man ... and says something like "WHY can't YOU do anything like that???" Man looks at me like ... thanks alot sport. One more time and I've had someone say ... "Well THAT's just a BIT MUCH!!!!" And, the guy just sort of decides he'll have something else to do next time we ask them over.

It's hard to share my work, without people thinking I'm piling on. That's why I'd rather have customers share my work they've enjoyed owning. However; 99 out of 100 say they are too busy, didn't take pics last time, computer's in the shop ... etc.. They just never get to it. So, I have the pics and the format. I hope nothing comes across like it's a race. I really enjoy the topics folks post, and enjoy seeing their rigs. Wish more of my customers would take a minute to share things, but it just doesn't happen.

Gary

Yeah, know what you mean to a certain extent..
Alot of my wife's friends have husbands who work in offices etc. Ems is always telling them that I made this, or did that, does this for a living etc whilst their husband have problems doing their own shoe laces!! (but can knock out a Powerpoint presentation in 5 minutes flat)

Don't worry about thinking people see you as piling it on. You are surrounded by your fine work, and flooded with testimonials to your skill in Airgun Smithery. People KNOW that you don't have to 'give it the large' (please excuse the course English slang!).
I shall try in future to recount or share any projects I undertake this Spring/Summer. (Don't say anything to Jerry about my 6 ring slugs, still waiting to test them!!)

Paul, we've already concluded you like them so much you consider them a part of the estate too dear to part with...

Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Paul, we've already concluded you like them so
> much you consider them a part of the estate too
> dear to part with...

Ha! I'm soon to have some remedial work done on my .25 cal 24" and LDC and then I'm good to go
Breech section removed and re-done, re-crown, bushings repositioned and bore out the LDC a little.
Barrel should end up about 21" Going to lose a little power, but Lang has developed some seriously powerful valves, and I'm hoping his latest reincarnations will bring the power back up, if not higher still.

haha ... "Heirloom Slugs" by Barnes/Surefire. I like it.



comment was in the wrong place ... moved here.
Gary

Two thumbs held high..

Scott

so far so good!
hosting the pics on-site will be a major plus

Looks great!

This is truly interesting forum as well as your site, Gary. I read these day and night. Been mostly a lurker because of my background but I will add my activity... I'm probably little bit in minority here, because I'm European, from Finland in fact.

Well, there are not too many Barnes Pneumatic Arms in Finland yet, but I hope that some day, there will be at least one, mine haha. I have several airguns: caliper .25 and .45 (they are those korean ones). Those korean airguns are splendid, though they have certain limits, mostly because of the method they are made (factory bades serial production). But they are good candidates for slight modifications and I'm modifying the bigger at the moment. Two of my other airguns are those most usual caliper .177, though we don't have any laws regulating airguns - no licenses, no power limits like in many other European countries, but hunting is illegal with airguns (pity).

Sepeteus,

Great to have you. Thanks for commenting.

I know one of our good guys here is from Northern Ireland. I don't know the location of most readers.

Lon is from Miami ... that's a foreign country ... haah

Interesting to hear that you don't have limits. That's fine. Do you have the large game reserves that we have different places? Often, they have alot of land and book private hunts. Here ... many of those places will allow hunting with airguns, once you prove top them that the airguns have significant power, and once you prove to them that you are a good marksman.

Gary

Sepeteus,

We'd be very interested in the airgun scene in Finland! I sometimes consider the entire European continent as a whole when I think of airgun laws and activities. I know that each country has it's own laws and regulations but so many are so restrictive that I lump them all together because I never hear anything different.

Please let us know what you shoot and how the mods are coming. (BTW, if you need any slugs for the .45...)

Is anyone trying to change hunting laws there?

Welcome Sepeteus.

Glad to see that you've found this forum, Finland seems to be one of the sole remaining countries in Europe that has a strong tradition of firearms use, shooting, and hunting. Of course, it helps that you're much more sparsely populated than most of the rest of the continent. As a bonus you don't have to worry about some of the ridiculous restrictions that we have here in the U.S. ...firearms silencers/moderators for example. I've read several really good firearms-related websites from your fellow countrymen.

Thanks for paying attention

According to our law airguns are not weapons, only firearms are weapons. And thus, airguns are covered by completely different laws than firearms as they are not weaponlike instruments (there is no explosives involved). And if I put it bit simplistic way, all airguns are also thought to be similar with each other and not enough harmful to be a problem from jurisdical point of view... It's a splendid silliness

But (and that but is problematic from airgun enthusiast's view-point) recently there has occurred instances where some people have been shot by some fools with airguns, and that has opened the eyes of law-makers. Our police forces, for example, just tested and studied new powerful airguns and they were, of course, surprised (or shocked) how powerful some airguns could be and in fact are. Nothing restrictive has yet happened, and I truly hope that nothing that sort will happen because PCP airguns are still very unpractical for criminal deeds (could you imagine someone robbing a bank with PCP and scuba tank on his shoulder???) .

We (Finnish airgun enthusiats) have now established association to defend our rights to have, own and shoot our airguns peacefully without any hassles with licenses or restrictions. Let's see what will happen in the future. Well, we hope that it could become jurisdically legal to hunt with airguns, but that almost surely adds some restrictions or makes enough poweful airguns also licensed. You know, it will probably be a two edged sword that people generally recognize how powerful airguns could be.

Most of all airguns in Finland are caliper .177, but there is growing interest for different calipers and bigger bores. I myself like bigger airguns, but am shooting also small bore airguns and -pistols because I live in the city. There is not too far distance to wild life of northern wilderness though. At present, it is too dark out there, but in spring and summer time it will be fun to drive to the nearest forest. This darker period is good for modifying and tuning our collection, and of course, it is possible to shoot indoors... I am having ten meters track at my home (and I shoot the .25 PCP there in low power level and pressure).

The interest for larger bore airguns could be seen as coming from our cultural environment (hunting tradition and firearms). Many - should I say most - people still associate airguns to the.177 spring-piston one; still airguns are gaining more attention all the time in Finland (all over the world I think) and constantly growing number of people are shooting them, because there is no need of cartridges and and they involve less cleaning etc.

Airguns are simply special sort of fun!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2009 04:46PM by sepeteus.

great post - thanks.

Right, as soon as you try to convince officials that airguns are powerful to hunt with, then you have convinced them that they are powerful enough to want to regulate.

In truth, yes ... they are so cumbersome, realitively expensive to firearms ... that they would never be practical for a crime wave.

Gary

ok , ill admit they might not be practical for a crime wave ,,, can you imagine the shame of being held up by a guy with an airgun ,,,lol , it would have to be a sawn off airgun at that ,,, but , when the laughing has stopped , i wouldnt like to be on the wrong end of a large bore pcp .ive seen what happens to steel plate ,,, its incredable to see how much variation there is on airgun law . anyways ,,, lets get back to the materials list ,,, ohh talk 316 stainless to me ,,,,, lol , i dont see carbon fibre , aka fantastic plastic , or titanium , aka super tin , on the list yet

Hey Dyson (Tom).

Been there, done that. Used a bunch of titanium 20+ years ago. Nasty to machine. Gritty stuff. Can't sand or polish it. Drags on everything. Can't drill it well because the chips fuse to the bits. In sort ... it's another buzz word material. Great to make an SR-71 Blackbird out of.

I do use some stainless. For barrel shrouds (I don't rifle it). The seamless tubing is either 308 or 316 stainless. Use it for valves, pressure reserviors. It's unnecessary ... but some folks enjoy it. Now, I don't usually follow thru the whole gun though. All stainless machine screws, all stainless springs, etc. WHY!!!???? Cause it's mostly unnecessary, unless you plan to bury the thing in the garden. Stainless screws usually don't have the tensile of high carbon machine screws, and the spring wire isn't as resilent. Then again, it machines nasty, drills nasty, and does many other things nasty. Makes you take alot of extra time that I don't have.

I use some aluminum bronze, but it's also nasty to work. It's a natural bearing material, so it wants to resist friction rather than mill, drill, or lathe turn. But - it's very strong. Nearly as strong as chrome moly steel.

Mostly, the things on the list are there cause they are all that's required. Other things can be used, but aren't needed.

Gary

I agree that titanium has a reputation that exceeds it actual utility in many cases. I see so many cases of "titanium marketing" that it makes me wince, "titanium" kleenex...come on people. ; ) I suspect that the marketing morons see "titanium dioxide" in the ingredient list and say to themselves, "yeah, I can legally call this titanium", when all it's actually used for is as a pigment.

Even in cases where heat resistance is a primary concern (obviously not with airguns) plain 'ol carbon steel is often a better choice, especially when things get really hot. If you look at the strength/temperature curves on both of them, you'll see that most carbon steels fails much more gracefully at high temps, while titanium sags rather suddenly past it's critical point. Obviously it has advantages that steel will never equal for weight and corrosion resistance, but often an appropriate coating on steel can do almost as well at a much lower cost. I never have understood what the attraction is when it comes to titanium knife blades, either. Even a very basic carbon steel can do better, and the modern stainless blade steels are way ahead.

And as far as "carbon fiber" goes, don't even get me started. If we ever got Gary started building his own composite gunstocks he'd have to add another whole wing onto the shop. Lets save that whole can of worms for the high pressure tanks, which you can just buy at the store.

Hey, I resent the "titanium bashing" ;-)

As an orthopedic surgeon, I implant titanium into people on a regular basis.... and in that application it has definite advantages: biocompatibility, modulus closer to bone, weight etc.

As Gary said, also a useful material in high strength/low weight settings - fighter jets/missiles etc

BUt...for airguns, only real reason to use it would be for the "cool" factor. Aluminum probably just as good property-wise for what goes in an airgun, and besides, by the time you've got a stock and a big, honking scope how much weight are you saving anyway?

As for knives...I think the beta titanium and cobalt alloys have 1 good niche - dive knives! Those of you who are divers are acquainted with crappy 300 series knives which don't hold an edge for 5 minutes! "Good" "stainless" rusts when abused as dive knives usually are.

I've actually made dive knives from both Stellite type material and beta titanium, and they work well and DO NOT Rust. With the right profile and serrations they will do what you need a dive knife to do. They are a PAIN to work with and are NOT cheap ;-)

Carbon fiber...very cool material - if you are building the Space Shuttle or something like that ...and that's about all I'll say about that!

Thus far I think the forum is growing nicely!

Hey, I've got nothing against titanium either, in the right application.

In fact, I've spent an appreciable portion of my life depending on it (literally). This is the rotorhead of the last helicopter I flew, and almost everything you see in this shot is either titanium or carbon fiber. The hub is machined from one solid block of titanium, but then the Germans always have been big fans of technological overkill. ; )