Running a shop means keeping it current with materials, and machinery needs.

I ordered a new machine lathe today. It will have several capabilities that my current main lathe does not have. Before you envision some hundred thousand dollar German rig ... it's not. But I'll be grateful for having the additional help in producing quality parts.

In addition, I've had to adapt to what has become a different situation in the realm of materials. Especially seamless tubing. When I started making airguns, frankly, I received more consistant materials than I do now. Sizes vary more now. Quality varies more now. I have to refuse more things now. I have to adjust materials that were straight before.

I can spend a lot of time burning up the phone and explaining just what's incorrect about THIS shipment. And, I do that. However; some things are less "wrong" than others. For example. Used to be that any seamless tubing you bought, would come in straight as an arrow. You could spin it in the lathe, and it was like a solid shaft. And, some still is. However; last week I got a UPS shipment of tubing where the very heavy laminated paper tube (like 3/8" solid wall paper shpping tube) was broken and bent. Ah ... good chance the tubing is bent to. Correct. That's an easy one, it shouldn't have been left that way. Time spent correcting it. More materials sent.

But - what about the tubing that comes in that has a bit worse "mill scale" than the last. That means more clean up time. More stock removal. Means the final size might be different. And, you can call and complain ... but this tubing isn't being sold to make high end airguns ya know. It's plenty expensive enough, but it's not a basis to call and expect perfection. Odd thing was ... you used to get perfection waaay more often. Now it's rare indeed.

Stainless tubing seems to be a real crapshoot. Lately, I spent nearly $200 to get a pc. of tubing in here that's only about six feet long ... and ... it has a visible curve to it! Cut it, put it on a lathe, and it spins crazy. Well, the real bummer came when I'd pull something from a shipping tube that had been in stock (unopened ... ... cause I was doing six things at once) ... and I cut the pc ... did some inletting and milling ... drilling and tapping holes ... and then put it in a lathe to sand. Ah .... Dude! .... does that look crooked to you???

Well, calling to return cut off tubing with holes and slots in it doesn't work. And, because it's become a new part of my shop life ... I've developed tooling and techniques to tune and correct seamless tubing. I can straighten it. I can stretch it to exact dimensions. I can improve interior surface conditions. I can even shrink it some. Now; in a perfect world (remember that? haah) I shouldn't have to. And, nobody is paying me a dime more to do all of this ... but I learned, built, and now I can.

New lathe is to be here in five business days. I have a serious issue with where to put it. But - I'll find a way. Good thing I lost some weight. Not quite the 1,250 pounds for the new lathe ... but 35 of it! So ... that's a real good start. haha.

New tools are a "good thing".

Gary

Gary nothing I like reading about more than tools, guess we really never grow up. I'm sure the tubing you are buying is either imported or quality control was reduced to compete with imported material. It's a sad but very real problem that every manufacturing industry operating here in the USA is fighting. It's inevitable that they trim every process that does not effect the structural strength of their product, and of course the consumer of that product is expected to eat the added cost on their end.
Now back to your new toy, what brand did you choose, distance between centers, swing, give us all the details.

Hi Joe,

Regarding the tubing - it comes from everywhere. Sweden, Germany, USA, China, Italy. The German is the best. The Chinese is the worst. No matter who you talk to, or how you try to get the stuff inspected before it's shipped, you can't get the gorrila in the shipping dept. to make any decent decisions. You mention "straight", and you'll be sure to have a knot tied in the tubing when it arrives.

The lathe is a normal 12 by 36 for the small shop. I'd have gotten the 36" by 12 foot bed, but I just didn't have the room (hahahaha). It comes from our dear friends and bankers, the communist Chinese. I have a nice American lathe - two actually. One's Civil War vintage, and the other is almost as old as I am. The other two are Far East ... as are the mills and most of the band saws. I find that I can't work with just the one $400 hammer made in the USA. hahah. But hey, ALL of the machines and tooling that I made myself, are good old USA built! By Golly!!



Gary

Gary,

I'm curious, it would seem to be less capable than what you already have. What's the draw?

Lon

Joe,

This is the third time I've typed a responce to you. The forum was loading and loading and loading ... sooooo slow. yet it gave me a screen. Then, when it would catch up to a certain point ... it would dump my post draft. Clever.

Anyway ... quickly. Buy the most popular size of manufacturers. It will be the most value for the money. You often pay relatively more for small scale. You can always do very small work on a larget machine. Buy a good heavy vise too. Bigger than you think you need.

They pack alot into these new tools for the money. Very good value. You can do alot of heavy work on them if you know how to use them.



Gary

Lon,

No ... your assumptions are in error.

In addition, another lathe will allow for less tear down and set up time.

Gary

barnespneumatic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lon,
>
> No ... your assumptions are in error.
>
> In addition, another lathe will allow for less
> tear down and set up time.
>
> Gary

You're always saying nobody takes any interest in the board, I am curious about your new lathe, and that's all I get?

Lon

Hello Lon,

I'll go into more detail. I didn't know where you drew a comparison judgement between what I have now, and what I've ordered. I'd said that one of my current lathes is from the Civil War period, and one is nearly as old as I am. I'm 55, which I know you realize. So; I didn't see where that background described either current lathe as anything but old and simplistic. Buying a new lathe which is less capable than what I already have, would be a rather silly thing to do, and certainly not something to write about. My first comment of the post said: I ordered a new machine lathe today. It will have several capabilities that my current main lathe does not have. So; I just said that both ideas ... assuming that my old ones were capable, and assuming that the new one was not capable ... were in error.

There's a whole list of features which update new lathes. This is a "Gear Head" lathe. All three of my current lathes are belt drive (I have a third small Japanese bench top machine lathe as well.) In a gear head lathe, you just "shift" handles for speed changes. That's better than fiddling with greasy belts, compartment doors, tighteners, etc. The new lathe is a "Gap Bed" lathe. You can remove a section of he ways, and turn a bulky object - I doubt I'll use that feature - but I might. The new lathe has a single phase 220V motor ... not three phase like my main old one. That makes it easy to find a place for it without a 3 phase generator or a 3 phase convertor. The new lathe has an 1 1/2" spindle bore - allowing "thru insertion" of much larger stock than my current ones. My main old lathe has an odd spindle thread, that makes it difficult to buy chucks and backer plates for it. The new one will be current standard fare, and therefore be compatible with many new chuck offerings. You need different chucks for different operations. This new lathe comes with two chucks already - that's nice. The cost was correct for me at this time, and truck shipping was free - that's usually a big expense.

I'd also added, that having an additional lathe, will cut tear down and set up time. Since you need different configurations for different operations, you often have to break down and remove a very heavy chuck from the machine. You have to lift and install a very heavy different chuck (without damaging the precise "ways" of the lathe) as well. Every time you change a chuck, you run the risk that it won't seat the same, and accuracy will suffer. Far better to walk over to a different machine which can remain in configuration longer.

Gary



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2010 07:45PM by barnespneumatic.

Gary,

I've seen pictures of the old lathe and it looked like it was at least the same size, maybe larger. You spun a rod or tube once to show us how well aligned the spindles were. Gear change sounds like a labor saver for sure. Spindle bore IS huge.

Soooo what ya get? I go sneak a peek at it.

Lon

Lon,

Old Grey lathe is 10 by 36 between centers. This is 12 by 36 between centers. They both have about a 6 foot long footprint.

This lathe is badged ENCO. They make quite a few. I'm sure other distributers badge them differently. I've dealt with ENCO before. The stuff I bought was a good value and has served me well. I got confirmation that it's been shipped.

Might be 2589 model IIRC

Gary

Thar she blows:

[www.use-enco.com]

Thats a good size lathe, you should be able to handle about anything you need to do on it.
Talking about equipment I went to sale the other day here in town. A shop was closing and selling everything. As usual I was to late for most anything I might need including the small lathes. Now this place did a lot of work for a quarry that closed down a couple years ago. They had one huge lathe that the chuck looked to be 6 foot in diameter with a bed that had to be close to 30 feet. It sold at auction much less than the steel was worth. I was told a buyer in Saudi bought all the huge equipment including the lathe. Guess he got it a such a deal because moving that monster will cost a small fortune.
I would like to get a small Seig X3 mill and a small lathe for my little shop. Drilling and filing guard slots gets old quick. Ah well one of these days.
Joe

It's always the setup time that kills you on any machine tool project. Compared to that, the actually tool cutting time is almost an afterthought for most operations. Having an extra that you can leave set up for multiple operations on similar projects ought to be a big time-saver.

That said, we've all seen photos of your shop. Are you going to evict some of your other indispensible gizmos or just build on yet another addition? That hollow tree needs some growth accellerator poured on its roots, it's just not getting big fast enough to hold all your goodies.

Yeah - I'll just expand the wall with a blue tarp bubble.

I think what you really need is one of those giant inflatible bubbles that they use for maintenance hangars in the military. You can just pin it down around the perimeter of your property and crank up the big fan. Yeah, it might be a bit hard on the vegetation with the lack of sunshine and all, but at least you won't have to worry about the roof leaking anymore.

I like it. Vegetation is on it's own. I'll have to look into one of these. They can call me "bubble boy".

Gary

I worked in a tool and die shop in Bridgeport Ct . They had a lathe that was driven by a leather belt.Poplar tool and die. Had a friend that worked at bridgeport mill.db

Yeah ... my Pratt and Whitney is flat leather belt driven. That's my "name brand" tool. From the era of the Civil War.

Gary

WOW!
I didn't ever seen so old lathe or other machine. The oldest I've seen was a german circular saw machine from 1876.
I worked on it about couple weeks.
I use a 40 years old milling machine now. It was made in Lituania. The next one is Chinese CNC mill.
I really love that staff..

Hello Alex,

Yeah ... I've used the old lathe a few times for projects. It's in storage now. Could have a use later. I just keep it cause it doesn't eat much. haha.

Good solid tools last forever. I got my new machine lathe today. I'm pleased with it. I have several guns that will be better to make on this machine.

Looks like you are making a mold to cast pistol housings ... in aluminum?

Gary

Hi, Gary
It's a mold to cast the middle pressure thermoplastic (polypropilene, I guess). That gonna be an element for scuba gun.
It's an order from my friend, I don't care about scuba guns. The broken airguns and firearm are pain in my a.. I mean my hands

Alex



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2010 11:01PM by alex.